TZD Turbo is gutless at low revs

BX Bandit · Post by **BX Bandit** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:50 am

Sam, if all is well and you're still not happy, a change to a bosch pump and injectors is worth it. Not only is there more torque out of the boost range, but the pump is easily tunable and can be tuned much more easily to suit your own driving than a rotodiesel.

mm_citroen on flea bay keep advertising one at around £40 which ain't too bad but you'll need injectors and high pressure pipes to match it.

On your comparison with your 2.1, the 2.1 is much more torquey at much lower revs than the 1.7td! Another option is to find a faster spooling turbo. I think a Garrett 15 (not sure if it's 15 or 1.5) was used on some of the HDi PSA units. I've not done it and nor do I know anyone who has done this particular conversion so do a bit of research first in case I got the wrong end of the stick.

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:13 pm

They did actually fit the Garrett T15 turbo to the later 1.9TD engines, eg from a 306. The information I found a while back suggested it was 1998 onwards.

BX Bandit · Post by **BX Bandit** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:07 pm

Ah ha! Did they improve low down performance or do they actually spool up faster do you know Matt?

BX Bandit · Post by **BX Bandit** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:07 pm

Also, what turbo do you have on yours then and whilst I'm at it, what gear box?

Post by **docchevron** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:09 pm

A Garrett T3 works rather well!

BX Bandit · Post by **BX Bandit** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:10 pm

Is that more oooooooomph with a T3 docster or muchos quickos spooliage?

Post by **docchevron** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:12 pm

Much more oooooooooomph mate, especially if it's water cooled

Mine gives a good blow job from about 1400RPM, and still gives it large at 5100RPM!

EDIT: the IC is bloody useless though, a front mounted man sized unit is really needed.
After a couple of good squirts on the loud pedal the air gets so super heated you can feel the power falling away!

SamWise · Post by **SamWise** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:17 pm

mat_fenwick wrote: If you post up a photo of your fuel pump we can explain how to adjust if required, also how to
have all the performance it has to offer!
by upping the boost...

Is that not a recipe for.....you know.....disaster and everything?

Post by **docchevron** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:19 pm

Depends how far you take it.
You can reliably run a 17TD up to about 125, maybe 130 BHP without it shitting itself out.
mild boosting and fuelling increses will do no harm if the engines ok.

SamWise · Post by **SamWise** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:33 pm

How badly does this affect the economy?

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:05 pm

BX Bandit wrote:Also, what turbo do you have on yours then and whilst I'm at it, what gear box?

I've used the Garrett T2 that was orininally on the BX engine, saved swapping the outlet elbow onto the donor Xantia KKK turbo, plus the Garrett is easier to adjust in situ!
Gearbox wise I've kept the BX BE5 box, coupled with the BX clutch and flywheel. I see no reason to make life difficult to change to a pull type clutch, also that gearbox (20k miles oil changes!) was in a lot better condition than my Dad's Xantia box. It's strange, my Dad was almost religious about changing the engine oil but never changed the gearbox oil in 130k miles while he had the Xantia...

Samwise wrote:How badly does this affect the economy?

It's difficult to say what effect it has had on fuel economy - I used to get about 30-40 mpg from the 1.7TD, between 38-45mpg after the engine swap and usually mid to high 30s after increasing the boost and fuelling. I have seen mid 40s but tend not to drive economically all that often... In theory though, if the turbo is working at a level that gives the engine more efficient filling of the cylinders, you could notice an improvement in mpg, but in all honesty if you are tuning it you probably will use the extra performance and hence the economy will drop off a little.

SamWise · Post by **SamWise** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:23 pm

I think there's a combination of things here. I'm normally a VERY economical driver - I'll literally stick to 60 mph for 4 hours at a time, and I get 55 mpg from my XM, and 75 from my AX. What interests me is the ability to go fast when I really feel like it, and for those occasions when you need it. I live round the corner from the main road out of Southampton, which requires me to filter into 40-50 mph traffic with no filter lane at all, so a bit of a drag racer would be very welcome! I also love a car which will let me overtake without fear when the time comes......

DLM · Post by **DLM** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:41 pm

I live round the corner from the main road out of Southampton, which requires me to filter into 40-50 mph traffic with no filter lane at all, so a bit of a drag racer would be very welcome! I also love a car which will let me overtake without fear when the time comes......

A BX turbodiesel in decent fettle will unquestionably do both (accelerate quickly from rest and allow you to overtake without fear).

I'd say if there is no pickup at 2200rpm on a standard setup then something is not quite as it should be, but whether you need an Italian service or something else I'd hesitate to say without seeing the car. A dose of injection cleaner (or a little Paraffin - which I understand does the same thing) would be the place to start from my point of view. PM sent.

SamWise · Post by **SamWise** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:12 pm

DLM wrote:
I live round the corner from the main road out of Southampton, which requires me to filter into 40-50 mph traffic with no filter lane at all, so a bit of a drag racer would be very welcome! I also love a car which will let me overtake without fear when the time comes......
A BX turbodiesel in decent fettle will unquestionably do both (accelerate quickly from rest and allow you to overtake without fear).

I'd say if there is no pickup at 2200rpm on a standard setup then something is not quite as it should be, but whether you need an Italian service or something else I'd hesitate to say without seeing the car. A dose of injection cleaner (or a little Paraffin - which I understand does the same thing) would be the place to start from my point of view. PM sent.

An Italian Service? I'm unfamiliar with that term! I didn't get a PM, but it could be you're still writing it.....

DLM · Post by **DLM** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:29 pm

An "Italian Service" just means a bit of vigorous driving with the accent on a heavy right foot - sort of blowing out the cobwebs?