A couple of minor TD probs!

Post by **Tim Leech** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:56 pm

Doh! lol ok, is it worth buying a new one and giving it a try? I had my Xantia battery loosing charge over a period of a few days, the battery tester at work said it was fine, again, put a new one on that and its been fine since.

DavidRutherford · Post by **DavidRutherford** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:14 pm

15-20 seconds of cranking is way way too much. My TD has a crap battery on it, and it still starts within 3-5 seconds of cranking, and even that feels like too much.

I think your initial suspicions of air in the fuel may be worth investigating. First thing to check... Does it fire up more easily if you pump the fuel primer loads before the first start of the day?

Geoffrey Gould · Post by **Geoffrey Gould** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:19 pm

Hello mate the glow plugs take about 80 amps to start with, this dropping to about 44 amps it's a fair bit to take, probably another 300 for the starter. The battery voltage is a bit marginal but the cold weather will knock it about a bit.
Glow plugs are about 0.9 ohms unless they are the type that glow for a few minutes then they are about 0.5 ohms.
If you can measure the battery voltage when the starter is operated it should not fall below 11 volts, 10 1/2 volts spells trouble. Battery clamps/corroded joints will cause this but it does definitely sound like a duff battery to me.
All the best.
Geoff.

Geoffrey Gould · Post by **Geoffrey Gould** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:31 pm

Could be as David (above) says, while I was pondering about it he beat me too it!! It depends on how fast it turns over to start with. With everything OK then it should be almost just a flick of the key. Have you tried the clear plastic pipe from the filter to the pump to see if there is any possibility of air.
Cheers.
Geoff.

mountainmanUK · Post by **mountainmanUK** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:21 pm

Righty-ho chaps!

I've arranged to borrow a brand-new Citroen 65 amp/hr battery tomorrow, to allow checking of all the other lecky bits! (Don't ask where, but it involved quite a bit of cap-doffing and beggary!)

Funnily enough, the battery voltage during cranking runs at a healthy-looking 11.4V

Glowplugs appear to be fine, all four reading 0.5-0.55 ohms. (so presumably they are the longer-burning type? They are the same as the old ones I removed last year)

Next job for tomorrow is a thorough check on the fuel lines for leakage, starting at the tank end (as I suspect the problem may lie in the fiddly joint where the metal pipe turns 90 deg upwards to mate with the rubber pipe running down the front edge of the tank. It was a right tw@t to do, and there is no pipeclip of any kind on it.....as discovered with the original pipe!) I may just try shoving a nylon "Herbie" clip on it, to be on the safe side.

Finally, I'll check out the filter and other piping under the hood.

I'll keep y'all updated as to any progress made>

Cheers
Dave

DLM · Post by **DLM** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:39 pm

Does dipping the clutch and keeping it down when starting make any difference?

Also, what output are you getting when the alternator is charging? Do the readings vary dependent on where you're taking them - i.e. where your test probes are?

Also, have you tested the resistance of the wires to/from alternator and starter?

MULLEY · Post by **MULLEY** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:05 pm

Isn't the cca rating particularly important on batteries as they do vary quite a lot, lower figures dont tend to work when the temperatures get low?

mountainmanUK · Post by **mountainmanUK** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:50 am

Hi guys!

Latest update.......With a fully charged battery, she now cranks over lovely and fast. but still very reluctant to actually fire up, until eventually (around 20-secs cranking at a decent rate) she will get her a$$ into gear, still with a big enough smokescreen to hide a full battalion of SAS men!

Having eliminated the electrickery department from the problem, my thoughts turned to the fuel system.
Checked out the diesel filter, water trap, under-bonnet piping etc, etc. All appeared in good order with no loose connections, leaks etc.

Eventually took a look under the side of the car, level with the rear passenger driver's -side door, where lives the tank to front-end piping connection. I had suspected this place as a good soucrce of any leakage of air into the feed system since the underbody metal fuel pipes were changed last year. I had been surprised to find that there was no clamp / jubilee clip to secure the metal pipe end into the rubber pipe coming over from the top of the fuel tank,which (as always) was a right twat to fit.

All looked to be OK at first, until I tried giving the joint a wiggle. Then I felt wetness on my hand and saw a distinct dribble of diesel coming down from the "recess" up out of reach! Since then I have managed to accumulate a small patch of fuel dripped under the car every time I have been out and parked up.

"Guilty, m'lord!" I presume?!:-)

My next problem is to secure this properly. I cannot get enough space up the "recess" to get a decent jubilee clip on the joints, also the leakage does seem to coming from some perishing of the rubber somewhere higher up. I really, really, really do not want to drop the tank, but it looks as though that will be the only way to get this fixed.

I am now wondering IF it is possible to just remove the front 3 tank-securing bolts from inside the car (under the rear seat front edge), and gain enough access to be able to feed a new rubber pipe through from the tanktop "inspection hole" without actually dropping the full tank?

I can't seem to locate the cover for access to the tank feed connections under the seat squab. Do I need to fully remove the boot carpetting? (1993 17TXD Turbo saloon). I seem to remember that it was easily reached on my petrol BXs just under the rear seat?

Almost there now, methinks.......just need to get this leakage sorted and I suspect all will be well!

Cheers

Dave

Geoffrey Gould · Post by **Geoffrey Gould** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:29 pm

Hello Dave well done that man, so David was right with the air leak!!
Having the same problem I got some 'good' string as opposed to some of the string that a 3 year old could break, and tied a length very firmly round each of the rubber pipes at the top end where they fit onto the tank outlet, I used about a couple of feet per pipe and secured the ends to something so that they could not be lost, carefully eased the pipes off the stubs and carefully pulled the metal pipes down from underneath just enough to be able to detach the rubber pipes, don't lose them!! I used some of the "use only once" type of pipe clamps that are squeezed together with the 'carpenters pliers' type tool, indeed carpenters pliers work very well. These clamps are slim and clamp well and there is no space problems.
Long arms or maybe two people needed - push the metal pipes up to where they should be, carefully pulling on the string to bring the rubber pipes to the top and fit to the stubs and there you are. Carefull and slow and there should not be a problem.
Sorry to miss lead you about the battery!!!
All the best Dave.
Cheers.
Geoff.

BX Bandit · Post by **BX Bandit** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:43 pm

There should be a perforated circle under the rear o/s seat. In fact, there are two, the inner one being the fuel gauge sender and the outer one (nearest the door) being the feed and return pipes.

mountainmanUK · Post by **mountainmanUK** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:52 pm

@Geoff!

That is an abso-f'ing-lutely BRILLIANT idea, mate!!

I have now sourced a couple of suitably-lengthed chunks of appropriate string (hiking boot laces FTW!

), together with a couple of the "real" fuel pipe clamps (with a full circular band and separate screw mechanism, to keep the tightening even around the pipe).
@ El Bandito!
I shall make further efforts in the morning to locate the "inspection covers" under the rear seat, and finally get on with the job! I have never seen so much soundproofing felt under a seat as there is on Monica

, most of it firmly stuck to the floor pan.
Hope to be able to give you all good news sometime before tea tomorrow!

btw.....after 18 months on Incapacity Benefit following my stroke, I am returning to the workforce on Monday! Got myself a nice little job with Royal Mail, as a "Business Collections Driver", working 2pm till 6pm Mon-Fri and 10am till 2pm Saturdays, with a day off during the week. A nice little 20hours per week should ease me back into the swing of things OK!

Virtual

are on me this weekend, guys!

Cheers!

Dave

Geoffrey Gould · Post by **Geoffrey Gould** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:45 pm

Well done Dave that's smashing news, the sound deadening on mine was well glued down and I felt (!!) around for the cover then had to use a Stanley knife and then a wood chisel to remove the sound deadening.
All the best mate.
Cheers.
Geoff.

DLM · Post by **DLM** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:35 pm

Many congratulations on recovering from a stroke - many don't, as I know from personal experience.

On the subject of the inspection holes, I've been there on a number of BXs (being inquisitive, emptying tanks on a scrapper, replacing a fuel tank sender, sometimes even transferring diesel from the car not-in-use to the car-in-use etc.).

Many moons ago, on the diesel scrapper I mention above, I did lower and then remove the tank - but I don't remember a lot about it. However, I took a lot of pictures of that car while dismantling so I'll check to see if there's anything showing that area.

The cover over the tank sender and feed/return pipes is on the relatively flat section towards the front of the o/s rear seat and slightly to the left if I remember correctly.

BX Bandit · Post by **BX Bandit** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:08 pm

Great news Mountainman and good luck with the job. I'll kindly partake of one of your virtual

Post by **docchevron** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:53 am

Thats excellent news Dave. Cingrats young man, but dont push yourself.

Sound deadening is not a problem on either of my cars, the live in mouse has eaten / made a nest out of most of it!

so you all need is one field mouse left in car for about 3 hours, he'll find the inspection covers!