Wanted (in time): Diesel turbo BX Estate (silver preferred)

[Kitch]

I believe 'The Estate' still lives in a barn somewhere in the midlands, but don't know for sure. A legendary silver 19RD estate, but it needed a fair bit of work. Was usable but bodywork needed the most attention. Mechanically it just needed titivation as far as I remember. I dyno'd it at 74bhp though, so for an n/a diesel it was pokey enough (as much as a diesel BX can be!)

[northernchap]

From Wikipedia about the 205 (so don't shoot me if it's wrong):

The diesel models employed the XUD PSA Diesel inline-four engine, lifted from the Citroën BX which was introduced in September 1982. These XUD engines has a capacity of 1769 cc (XUD7) and 1905 cc (XUD9) and are closely related to the XU5 and XU9 petrol engines in the BX16 and BX19 of the time respectively.

As I said, got a 205 diesel sitting around doing nothing if you need it Dragon Man!

[rutter123]

No the camshaft will be different from a 205 as it has the drive pulley for the hyd pump on the end. It has to be a bx camshaft either from a 1.9n/a which will give better low down torque on a t/d but may suffer a bit top end or the correct t/d camshaft.

[Tim Leech]

I've not heard anything from Matt re "the estate" since I handed it over a while ago, he hasn't been on the forum for a long time either.

[Dragon Man]

hmmm you are giving me ideas... one thing though, if the cam shaft has broken, where on the cam shaft... and why? i work in a scrap yard and have killed engines for fun. i know the 306 uses the 19 XUD and that snapped the cam when we cut the cam belt while it was running flat out..

being a diesel, i guess its a pretty serious interface engine.. both of my fiat pandas are non interface meaning i can snap a cam belt doing whatever speed and never damage anything.

my fear would be a complete top end rebuild and also new piston crowns... if it came to that i would consider an engine swap from another car. (wouldn't it be nice to fit a HDI into a BX i actually wonder if any of the bolt holes would line up. i could easy fabricate my own engine mounts hmmmm.... )

you say that the BX engine is unique in that the cam drives the hyd. pump? hmm.. i wonder if parts could be swapped over from a BX engine to a different engine, say from out of a 306 or 405. or if the cylinder head is just completely different. or if the hyd. pump could be moved to be driven from the crank pulley.. i guess it is on a toothed belt? i really need to buy a Haynes for a bx and study it. (anyone have a project thread with lots of engine pictures in?)

in short, i am interested... if it would be as simple as replacing the cam shaft i just really worry that it has done damage lower down.

[rutter123]

Why much about changing heads and trying to adapt something that may not fit, i dont think running the hyd pump from the crank pulley on a diesel is a viable option, where would you place the pump ? space is tight enough down the crank pulley side as it is. best to just get another t/d lump from a bx, i have a good running one here with gearbox if you need it. I dont know if a HDI lump would fit but they are pretty unreliable anyway, an early Xantia lump 1.9 t/d would fit. The pump is not driven by a toothed belt just a small v belt. The Pug 405 diesel uses the same engine but, again does not have the camshaft pulley for the hyd pump. There is nothing stopping you swapping the engine for something else but then you will have the hydraulic aspects to sort as a lot of it bolts to the bell housing and some high pressure lines may have to be adapted to fit which in itself is headache material. bx's and xantias use different pumps, flow valves and pressure regulators, if your not familiar with this you could end up causing yourself more trouble than its worth. Like you said get yourself a service manual and do a lot of homework before setting to task. Or failing that stick with your Fiat Panda.

[Dragon Man]

ahh i was just thinking out loud.. i cant help but modify things if something is broken. for instance the hydraulic system i probably run electronically after an upgraded alternator (which i may have to do if the alternator on these gives out less than 75 amps. i have had to in both my pandas even with the one running the punto engine!)
i sadly do not know what is where on a BX or how much room there is anywhere. sadly i would not know till i actually get one as looking at pictures is never the same.

with my first panda i dove right in the deep end and just bought the first one i could knowing that it had the possibility of being very bad and it kinda was but i am nothing but dedication. when i have something that is broken and i want it working, i work damn hard to make it so.

my issue is i want one that needs work as i just love the challenge, but at the same time i want one to use as soon as possible.

the only thing i am not really good at is bodywork. sure i can weld it up but the "getting it to look good" bit is something i struggle at doing. in saying that, i dont think i did bad with my first panda. the second one however.. well lets just say it's not everyone's cup of tea heh (hey it was a free car, i do work in a scrap yard and it does win prizes at car shows).

i really do hope i can get one that only does need a little work. as i said i am very tempted with this one with the snapped cam shaft if its an easy fix.

[rutter123]

An easy fix? maybe if the valves aren't bent or the piston crowns damaged, or moreso the head. Also prob an expensive fix, a decent head gasket is £30 alone, a camshaft £50+ at a guess, will need re-shimming, cambelt kit, water pump, head bolts, valves, guides etc etc, if bits are broken internally most likely damaged the turbo compressor wheels and housing. The list goes on.
I have a complete XUD7TE (1991 bx turbo diesel) c/w lucas fuel pump, kkk turbo, and gearbox, complete and ready to drop in, even the clutch is good, a fairly easy job to do for you im sure, still in car can be heard running, its done 200k but still sweet starts on the button, no issues tho will need a service of oils and filters c/b and w/p, your's for £150 complete. Its gotta be the easier option as this will also give you a chance to check all the hyd pipes behind/under the engine which are quite inaccessable with the engine in.

[Dragon Man]

hmm good call, it would also give me a spare (all be it broken) engine to keep for parts. hmmmmmm.........

a project.. wonder if i could store the car at work while i am fixing it up. i know they could do all my transporting jobs too. i'll have a word with the boss man and see what he says..

[Dragon Man]

managed to contact the chap who has the BX parked down in Hackney. seems a nice guy. he does not know how much the car is worth though.

he tells me the car "just stalled" on tick over so maybe the damage is not that bad... however its only natural you try to restart it so my guess would be that with the force of the engine jolting to a stop and the potential attempt at restarting, at least one valve is bad.

i know it's a completely different engine but we had a ford fiesta with a 1.8D none turbo snap a cam belt at speed (with the clutch pressed down), and that was got running again with just a belt change even with all that potential damage so i hold my hopes high.

he asked me to call him back on Tuesday as he is a bit busy. my boss also told me that he could get the car moved up to Derby for a greatly reduced cost (as i fixed something that cost him as much as a brand new Mercedes)

happiness restored.. now we wait.

[rutter123]

I would only offer scrap money, tho some people prefer to hold on to them and let them rot away on their drive, god knows why but it happens a lot. Start with your lowest offer then there is room for negotiation, im sure i heard about this one in Hackney a few years ago, is it parked in some railway arches or something like that? Good luck with your bx'ing.

I still have the engine should you need it and will keep it for you for a small deposit.

[Dragon Man]

yeah that is the one.. i suspect quite a bit of rust to be fair which i have never been wrong about... but who knows.
if i can save it, it will be good and another one back on the road!

[Dragon Man]

the chap is now off holiday so i gave him a call and he is going to send me some pictures through. i asked him to take some pictures of the door sills to get an idea of the level of rust.

fingers crossed, its not going to be bad


the MOT history seems very good!

Code: Select all

MOT history of this vehicle
Test date15 July 2013 Expiry date15 July 2014 Test ResultPass Odometer reading69,465 miles MOT test number1395 1619 3158
Test date16 July 2012 Expiry date15 July 2013 Test ResultPass Odometer reading68,837 miles MOT test number6794 2869 2157
Test date6 July 2011 Expiry date5 July 2012 Test ResultPass Odometer reading68,467 miles MOT test number4465 4728 1151
Test date2 July 2010 Expiry date1 July 2011 Test ResultPass Odometer reading67,666 miles MOT test number2610 0348 0105 Advisory notice item(s)
Nearside Front Brake hose slightly deteriorated (3.6.B.4d)
Offside Front Brake hose slightly deteriorated (3.6.B.4d)
Test date28 June 2010 Test ResultFail Odometer reading67,665 miles MOT test number9335 6937 0180 Reason(s) for failure
Nearside Front Tyre has a cut in excess of the requirements deep enough to reach the ply or cords (4.1.D.1a)
Offside Front Tyre has a cut in excess of the requirements deep enough to reach the ply or cords (4.1.D.1a)
Offside Rear Tyre has a cut in excess of the requirements deep enough to reach the ply or cords (4.1.D.1a)
Nearside Rear Tyre has a cut in excess of the requirements deep enough to reach the ply or cords (4.1.D.1a)
Advisory notice item(s)
Nearside Front Brake hose slightly deteriorated (3.6.B.4d)
Offside Front Brake hose slightly deteriorated (3.6.B.4d)
Test date13 June 2009 Expiry date12 June 2010 Test ResultPass Odometer reading66,431 miles MOT test number2233 8486 9173 Advisory notice item(s)
Nearside Front Brake hose slightly deteriorated (3.6.B.4d)
Offside Front Brake hose slightly deteriorated (3.6.B.4d)
Test date8 March 2008 Expiry date7 March 2009 Test ResultPass Odometer reading65,684 miles MOT test number3235 5896 8010
Test date24 February 2007 Expiry date23 February 2008 Test ResultPass Odometer reading65,329 miles MOT test number1727 1515 7093
Test date18 February 2006 Expiry date17 February 2007 Test ResultPass Odometer reading64,791 miles MOT test number1030 0994 6466

[Dragon Man]

Sadly the chap wants £500 for the car in Hackney.. i fear its just going to sit there and rot at the price he is asking its a shame as in the pictures (ill upload later as im at work) looked really good. maybe some one could use it to do an engine swap on if they fancy paying out the £500 for it.

oh well.. i am still on the look out for one...

[Defender110]

Sadly the chap wants £500 for the car in Hackney...

Oh dear, he needs to wake up and smell the coffee!