Interesting bit of exhaust pipe

[Philip Chidlow]

Having seen BXs and the like bombing around the track here, my mind is made up - I must do it. The exhaust part would only be worth fitting if, as you say there was a decent back box and the car was developing more power through other modifications 'up front'. I am completely open to suggestions but I want to use a GTi 8v as a starting point. I did think TurboD (even considered using the ZX as the basis) but I want a wider rev range.

So, Dr. Chris and co. - assuming I won't have much to spend on the car beyond necessary (or advisable) safety items - what would be the most effective route to more useable power, without compromising durability too much?

[Kitch]

Having seen BXs and the like bombing around the track here, my mind is made up - I must do it. The exhaust part would only be worth fitting if, as you say there was a decent back box and the car was developing more power through other modifications 'up front'. I am completely open to suggestions but I want to use a GTi 8v as a starting point. I did think TurboD (even considered using the ZX as the basis) but I want a wider rev range.

So, Dr. Chris and co. - assuming I won't have much to spend on the car beyond necessary (or advisable) safety items - what would be the most effective route to more useable power, without compromising durability too much?

Buying a 16v...it's faster and stiffer to start with!

8v's are compromised by the amount of air they can shift. They can only draw so much in, and they're quite basic heads in design.

Ph1 valver would be a far better start to be honest. IMO, a GTi would make a fairly pants track car....in fact a valver wouldn't be much better. You'd still get tanned by Saxo's and Corsa's with redtop XE's in

[Philip Chidlow]

Maybe I'm missing the point? In all honesty I've had a 16v (two actually) and wouldn't want to cane it around a track in such a car - in particular because it would cost a lot more. No doubt it would be quicker than an 8v but is that the reason I want to indulge in some track time?

No. If my sole aim was to disgrace the Saxo and Corsas with fancy engines then I probably wouldn't go the BX route at all. I don't intend to race the car.

Really what I want is a cheap BX that will offer some thrills along the way without the premium I'd have to pay for a (more desirable) 16v.

A GTi is fairly quick. The power-to-weight ratio can be improved and with some careful application of know-how (an appeal will go out!), should provide a few laffs. I'd run track tyres on steels (like the Sport I saw) and not care that a sporty Saxo might overtake me.

I hope some of you will understand that my main aim is to get a cheap BX for track outings and that if I'd kept either of my 16v's I wouldn't have considered either of them for such a limited existence.

The next consideration will be as to how much it costs to run a car (track days, insurance and so on). It could be that, (as my reckless hooligan days have necessarily passed), that it is still a pipe dream

[stuart_hedges]

I'd also assumed you were going racing, Phil. Reading comprehension ftw! What you say does sound like an absolute riot though, and something I'd love to try.

I'm sure I'd be a crap racer - not aggressive enough - but I'd love to have a go at driving very fast around a track, learning how to control the car at speed etc. If I had any money spare, and if we lived a bit closer, I might even make a bid to join in.

I must say though... I think I'd be going for something RWD, for all-out track fun. Although I can't think of anything rwd offhand that would be as cheap to buy as a BX...... even Sierras are getting pricy

[docchevron]

For an out and out track car, Kitch is spot on. 16 valves will move more air all day.
However, if you want more grunt from an 8v lump there's a bit you can do.

Ignore the bottom end, thats granite like anyway. As long as the rods and crank are in good nick you'll never have to worry about it.

It's all in the top end.
Reworking the head is not too costly and gives really good results.
Opening out the ports is quite possible, as is fitting bigger valves.
Mildly tuned cams are (or at least were) available that give a bit more nip higher up the rev range, but allowing as much air in and the freeest possible exhaust route will pay huge dividends.
If you want to get a bit more involved then after top end work you'd really want to re-map the ECU to get the best of the hardware.
In short, you could get 160BHP from an 8v without spending collosal amounts of cash.
Ok, reliabilty would not be as good as a standard setup, but it wont kill the engine overnight.

[mnde]

I'd also assumed you were going racing, Phil. Reading comprehension ftw! What you say does sound like an absolute riot though, and something I'd love to try.

I'm sure I'd be a crap racer - not aggressive enough - but I'd love to have a go at driving very fast around a track, learning how to control the car at speed etc. If I had any money spare, and if we lived a bit closer, I might even make a bid to join in.

I must say though... I think I'd be going for something RWD, for all-out track fun. Although I can't think of anything rwd offhand that would be as cheap to buy as a BX...... even Sierras are getting pricy

Erm... Skoda Estelle/Rapide, Fiat 131, Hillman Imp/Sunbeam Sport... Hmm maybe not as cheap as I think... BMW 323?

Er, I'll get my coat then!

Mark.

[stuart_hedges]

A BMW 3-series might be an idea, although the only cheap ones will have a miniscule engine. I always liked this era (no idea of what they're called in BMW nomenclature):

[djoptix]

Cheapo 3-series would be more tail-out fun, but a 16v will be faster overall. Phil, if you want track fun I really would suggest getting a 16v. They're coming up all the time on the 'bay at the moment, dirt cheap. Why spend time and money making an 8v that will only be about as fast as a 16v is out of the box?

[Philip Chidlow]

I take the point about a 16v but one which costs, say around £400 will not be very good, still needing time and money spending on it. I would have thought sorting out a 16v would be easy enough, but the idea of spending hundreds more goes against the principle of what I'm suggesting....

I would hope to get an 8v GTi for under £200 and spend maybe another £200-250 on her, and do the stripping out etc. Then, with a maximum spend of around £400 I'd have something that would still provide fun.

BUT (a big BUT) if a cheap 16v came along then I'd be daft to ignore it.

The 16v's that have appeared recently (including my ex-one) are going to cost a lot more than £400 and really, I'm not sure I'd want to strip out any of them...

Let's give it some more thought. I'm not ready to do anything yet!

[Tim Leech]

Mine for £21, happy with that, wil see ifs bearable!

[mat_fenwick]

If not then I'll take it off your hands!

[Kitch]

I've gotta wonder what the point of throwing a load of cash at a GTi would achieve when it'd still be slower than a 16v at the end of the day, yet would have cost more to build? It's still gonna have the same wear and tear issues as any BX that age, 8v or 16v aside. The engines are as strong as each other, although with a valver you'll need a baffled sump.

Its not all about out and out speed though. Valvers are geared to be more of a driver's car (although no BX can really be classed as a driver's car!). The gear ratios encourages you to stir the box more often, the anti roll bars thicker and the spheres stiffer. And even if you don't try and better everything else out there (which surely is the point, otherwise you'd just drive along A-roads?) you'd still have the more rewarding car to drive. Surely thats the point of a track car? A combination of something that's geared to be as fast as it can be, while throwing refinement and economy out of the window, yet something which feels special to be behind the wheel of?

Personally BX's and track cars don't really work in my book, unless you're going Gary Cole's route with a big budget. Far better suited cars to track; the BX is the car to tow the trailer to the circuit!

[Philip Chidlow]

I understand about the 16v being a better bet than the 8v.

But I did enjoy seeing a BX Sport being driven around on the track. The 16v there wasn't quicker - maybe because the owner didn't want to hurt his car, whereas the other had slicks and the owner didn't hold back.

What's the point you ask? If I could get a 16v on the track for the same as an 8v, then I would. But I need convincing.

Perversely, I might take an 8v just for the hell of it. Just to prove everyone right. Although whether a proud 16v owner would be able to beat me - when I don't give a **** about hurting my car - on a tight track is another question

(OK maybe I should get a 16v!... )

[mat_fenwick]

with a valver you'll need a baffled sump.

OK, now you've got me - why would the valve need a baffled sump but not the 8v? I thought the sumps (and bottom ends, in terms of the oil system at least) were the same. Am I missing something?

I would agree with the statement though, in the 205 there is one long sweeping LH corner around here that I can actually take at a higher speed in the Discovery(!), as when I go round it at more than 50mph in the 205 I would get the oil light coming on. Not good for long engine life.

[stuart_hedges]

Mat's baffled!

Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week - badoom *ching*