Update on my car

[mat_fenwick]

As it happens I was looking at this last night, which confirms the issue. Without seeing the rust, it may be a borderline case, in which case the first garage should have it down as an advisory, to cover themselves. Human nature being what it is, if you take a car to an MOT station saying that it has 12 months MOT that you are dubious about, chances are they will be that little bit stricter on borderline cases. And if it is a garage trying to get work for themselves, they have another reason to fail it if there is the slightest doubt (just me being cynical!)

[Brian]

I still think it is a "Grey" area, and is not crystal clear, But:

If the retest was issued with a VT30 Refusal of an MOT Certificate, even if the old certificate is indate, and the corrosion identified is considered dangerous, and could adversly effect braking, steering or some other safety critcal aspect, this renders the vehicle as "unroadworthy"

Then, if the vehicle is involved in an accident on a public road, the insurance would be invalid..

Do you think that's a Valid point?...

[Geoffrey Gould]

Hi David thank you for putting things into perspective my memory is not as good as it was. I started MOT ing stuff when they first started and was sure it was the case of if a car was put in for MOT and failed then any outstanding original MOT was cancelled. Sorry to cause a panic. Apologies.
Cheers.
Geoff.

[DavidRutherford]

I still think it is a "Grey" area, and is not crystal clear

The wording of the law is black and white. The vehicle must have a valid MOT test certificate, and nowhere in law does it say that "if you fail another MOT, your current one is invalid"

... the corrosion identified is considered dangerous, and could adversly effect braking, steering or some other safety critcal aspect, this renders the vehicle as "unroadworthy"

TBH, corrosion would have to be fairly massive in order to adversely affect how a car drives. A monocoque construction relies on multiple load paths and so it would have to be horrendous corrosion before a car was really dangerous. The reason the MOT test is as stringent as it is is to ensure that a "marginal" pass car will still be safe after 12 months of corrosion. It won't pass the next MOT (as it will most likely have corroded more in the previous 12 months) but it still won't be dangerous.

if the vehicle is involved in an accident on a public road, the insurance would be invalid..

I can't see how. The vehicle has a valid test certificate. The fact that it wouldn't pass another MOT test is neither here nor there, the point is it has one and that's all that matters.

[Tourist]

So if you have an mot that says the car is safe, even if it isn't the latest one, you're still ok? Was this said or am I mis-reading due to tiredness?

[Way2go]

I believe that you have shot yourself in the foot by getting a new MOT. When you have a pre-existing MOT valid for no more than a month then that number is recorded on the computer and the remaining time is added to the new MOT when the new MOT is issued.

The roadworthiness certification is only valid at the time of issue. You have taken it for another test not declaring a pre-existing MOT and so on the computer, your later test has replaced the earlier test & so the earlier test is now invalid. If you get stopped by the Police, it is the fail that will show up on their vehicle check too.

The way you have approached this is wrong I'm afraid and you cannot blame the seller because you DID have a valid MOT before you went down this ill-advised route.

The MOT is not designed to be conducted in this way! If you wished to take issue with the seller in an informed way, you should have arranged for an engineers inspection report from the AA, RAC or other official body and paid their charge. Then if the report substantiated your suspicions that the MOT should not have been issued then you could have complained to VOSA about the MOT Tester and they would perform an inspection test.

Considering all the posts you have made on this forum, I would have thought that you would have floated such a serious procedure past us first without being so hasty. After all you might have learnt that it was being uninformed and hasty that got you into difficulties in the first place.

It's probably not worth trying VOSA now for an inspection now in the hope it passes as it doesn't make sense given what you've done. It's likely best to bite the bullet, tough as it seems, make the necessary repairs (as you would have to in time anyway) and go for a retest which may be free or reduced cost if you do it and take it back to the same MOT Station within the week anyway.

[Way2go]

The wording of the law is black and white. The vehicle must have a valid MOT test certificate, and nowhere in law does it say that "if you fail another MOT, your current one is invalid"

David, you may have got away with this (pre-computerisation) when in the case of an incident or police stop all you had to do was produce a paper copy to whoever wanted to see it. Today the Police on a "Stop" know your status of MOT before they even approach you and if you're not carrying license and Insurance will have the computer verify them when they speak to you. No longer necessary to take them down the cop shop after the event as I found out recently on a random stop.

I'm sure if you then say (in this case) "I have an MOT" & produce a paper one the computer it will say "NO".

[MULLEY]

Hmmm, didnt realise that could happen if you re-mot'd your car within a previous mot period. I'll double check with my mechanic who happens to be an mot tester & let everyone know what he said.

[Way2go]

Hmmm, didnt realise that could happen if you re-mot'd your car within a previous mot period. I'll double check with my mechanic who happens to be an mot tester & let everyone know what he said.

Just think about it logically for a moment Mulley

Q "Why would you want to MOT your car if it had a valid MOT"?

A "Usually because if you are buying it from someone and they do it before you buy and it fails then they put matters right and retest with a pass!"

If it fails and that is recorded on the computer then it was "unsafe" at that time and you are aware that it is unsafe so can not even plead ignorance either when it catches up with you after the event!

[DavidRutherford]

your later test has replaced the earlier test & so the earlier test is now invalid.

Sorry, that's just completely wrong.

I've looked into this quite heavily, including phone calls to VOSA, and have spoken to a couple of traffic officers, and if the car has a valid MOT test certificate, than that is that. You can take the car for as many MOT tests as you like in the meantime, and be refused another certificate, but that does NOT invalidate the existing certificate. A PNC check will show that the vehicle has a valid certificate.

[DavidRutherford]

So if you have an mot that says the car is safe, even if it isn't the latest one, you're still ok?

Aside from the bit in red, yes, that's correct.

An MOT certificate does NOT say that the car is safe. It simply means that the car met the minimum standard at the point of testing, AND NOTHING MORE. As I've mentioned before, the car could be a complete deathtrap 3 months later, but that's not the point.

[mikesg]

Tourist.
If you look at the other item that your seller has for sale in a classified ad, you will find a contact mobile number. this is 07958609752. You may know this already but if not , it might help. Another avenue to get advice from could your local Trading Standards. They're quite a helpfull bunch in my area.
Good luck. Mike
You might also get clarifiction on the MOT issue.

[Tourist]

Thanks Mike, I already have the mobile number, and I have been using this to talk to him, but he doesn't seem interested in helping me.

[B-Hive]

this post duplicated so over-wrote it thus

[B-Hive]

Tourist..

I feel both for you and also regretfully against you..

I have bought my last two cars (BX included) from Ebay and have to say that in both cases I have been LUCKY.

Purchases on eBAY should be treated in much the same way as gambling at a casino..You take your chances!!! (and dont try to ask for a refund from the management/seller)

On both my Ebay occasions the sellers have been great and almost trying to upsell the cars before i hand the money over. My response has been akin to "look, i won the auction..its now MY responsibility" . And that would have held true even if there was a degree of misrepresentation of the car.

Ask yourself.. why has this car ended up on Ebay? usually hard to sell via fixed price methods...and car would not stand up to usual scrutiny.. So as a lesson, in future you have to factor in a "worse case scenario" in terms of what you pay.. end of sermon..

On the other hand I kinda smell a rat with this seller, if he's not coming to the party.. probably had a mate at the MOT shop.

Ages ago (1991) when i was in the UK I bought a CX for 110 pounds... failed its first MOT..took it to a less mainstream outlet and she was (sensibly) passed. not dodgy.. not unsafe..just not perfect in the anal eyes of a first mechanic that wanted to make some money off me..

Stick with your current MOT and deal with the problem in 11 months..this will mittagate your losses if any, at which time find a more friendly garage
"who knows".

In the mean time as this forum suggests, take time to have a considered look at your rust issue. There are people here who will help if they can if there is anything significant (or otherwise) to treat.

Worst case in your mind burn half of what you paid as your loss cos from what i saw the car would be at least worth that.. You havent done ALL your dough..

Dont bother with refunds..too much stress and will just sour you more and more on the car which could potentially be your little gem!!!

wish you all the best