helping out

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citroen7
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helping out

Post by citroen7 »

just thought i would let you all know that i had a visit from mad max and his beloved BX for some major refurbishment.
so car was in garage by 2.30 yesterdayand on ramps at back ,stands at front. first things first so one cup of tea and one coffee to discuss the plan :) anyway by 10pm we had changed the bushes on both wishbones new droplinks fited ,1xcv boot changed 1x lower ball joint changed checked out both height correctors and linkages.
so feeling very pleased with ourselves we cleaned up and had some supper, buy this time and one bottle of vino later it was near 11pm and max suggested a quick pint before they close ,close i said it does not come into the equation ! anyway to cut the story short we drifted home about 2.15 and needless to say not much was achieved this morning .
We also had a breif visit from Roger "harry" porter late on saturday but he saw the greasy overalls and made some piss poor excuse about a birthday party to go too :o So a good time had by all and one more bx driving as it should.
ellevie
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Re: helping out

Post by ellevie »

citroen7 wrote: So a good time had by all and one more bx driving as it should.
Sounds like ye had a right old time of it.... :D
How would you describe the before and after behaviour ? (of the car :lol:)
Do you think the new bushes made a big difference to the ride ?

David
David

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Post by citroen7 »

difficult to say as i did not drive it before :) but i certainly thought it was nice and tight and no wonder or pulling to one side ,we also changed the struts but not sure that made any difference. I am sure max will fill you once he sees this thread
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maxgreenwood
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Post by maxgreenwood »

hi guys,
Man i was aching in every muscle on Sunday from all that scambling around the car! The car does drive alot better, much tighter, those struts are a bit creaky at times though Robin! I'll see if it works itself out with some aerobics etc. This morning I greased the outer shiney bit under the strut gaitors and did the old sucking up fresh LHM through the returns behind the struts, they're pretty smooth now but creak quite a bit at the top going into high, and occasionally lots of creaking when turning the wheels reversing, manouvering etc. The ride seems pretty good though, although i still suspect its riding a little low for some reason, quite often hitting the end of travel over speed bumps, maybe i'm just a speed freak! i'll get under and check the height at some point. The bushes don't seem to affect softness apart from it feeling tighter. We tightened them up when car was in normal ride height which i thought should be the best approach so theres no strain on the rubber when in normal. Not sure what the official Citroen recommended approach should be?

Anyway, well happy with all the stuff we got done. Thanks again Robin.

I'd like to get my sphere pressures tested on the front, they're only just over a year old, but i'd be curious just to know everything is up to scratch.

The other thing was the height correctors - although they seem to be working fine, we did plan on changing the front one - we suspect they may be gunged up from the crap that came out the system a while back after hydraflushing. I have a new height corrector but we couldn't see how to get a spanner on the unions and actually turn it to detach the pipes without removing stuff from around it.. access on this car is not great for that part - the subframe is pretty hefty down there and everything is crammed in.

The only thing Robin spotted was the back one seemed a little sticky in either high or low, can't remember which. But we lubed them up anyway.

My next job really should be flushing the rad, i still havn't eliminated the small bubbles in the expansion tank, and they only appeared after i fitted a new hose and probably didn't bleed properly but the old girls been good for a couple of thousand miles with some pretty enthusiastic 100 mile an hour driving - er on Robin's private racetrack. So we both reckon (hope :) ) its not the head gasket.

My ex-citroen mechanic uncle said he stripped quite a few turbo diesel heads down suspecting a head gasket failure to find nothing wrong, and then it would be fine when all done up again. So he developed a technique going round the head bolts and establishing the correct torque - often on cars some of them would be alot looser than others... He'd do them all up to the correct torque and that often cured problems of small gas-in-coolant symptoms. :?
'92 16TXS (m), Dark metallic green, 74k
'90 16TZS (m), White, 86k
'89 19TRS auto, Olympic Blue, 133k
'88 Saab 900 8v Turbo (auto) 107k Red with Tan leather, lovely drive and well maintained.
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maxgreenwood
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Post by maxgreenwood »

oh yeah PS. Robin don't get me that drunk again!
It probably didn't help me agreeing it would be 'rude not to' have a seventh round with a whisky chaser.
'92 16TXS (m), Dark metallic green, 74k
'90 16TZS (m), White, 86k
'89 19TRS auto, Olympic Blue, 133k
'88 Saab 900 8v Turbo (auto) 107k Red with Tan leather, lovely drive and well maintained.
'07 Hyundai Santa Fe 2.2 CRDi 85k (m). Practical family wagon
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Post by ellevie »

When I first joined the forum I spent quite a bit of time trying to improve the ride by changing spheres, struts (not new), and the rear arm bearings but with no great results. In particular I was trying to improve the smoothing out of small high frequency perturbations. On my TXD I installed the softest combination of spheres I could get and it certainly made the ride really float but it didn't cure the high frequency response.

Some people say that this is normal for a BX but I had my 19TRS since it was about 4 years old and I'm pretty sure it had a much smoother ride back then. Also I test drove a BX a few years ago which had a much better absorption of those small rapid bumps.

Iv'e abandoned my pursuit of the "Holy Grail" of BX comfort for the time being....
David

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Post by maxgreenwood »

thats exactly the wavelength i'm on at the moment, its also what i've been chasing, and I'm not sure how much is worth doing or how much is quite subjective and in the mind. Citroen7 reckons my car is great but i'm stuck on the magic carpet dream, maybe i just need to get a CX! There are times sometimes just after starting and driving out for 10 mins when the ride is so smooth and seems to absorb everything, and that seems to me how it should be, and it seems to help if i just leave the car in normal overnight and don't do citaerobics, counter to what i've heard. Then it seems to retain its smoothness, but then sometimes if feels kindof crashy and i don't know why.

Just out of interest Ellevie, did you ever change / recon the height correctors / linkages - my citronian uncle thinks this will help with mine.

I am going to invest in some new softest-possible front tyres and see if that helps!
'92 16TXS (m), Dark metallic green, 74k
'90 16TZS (m), White, 86k
'89 19TRS auto, Olympic Blue, 133k
'88 Saab 900 8v Turbo (auto) 107k Red with Tan leather, lovely drive and well maintained.
'07 Hyundai Santa Fe 2.2 CRDi 85k (m). Practical family wagon
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Post by ellevie »

I remember you saying that about the ride starting out smooth and then growing harsher. It certainly des suggest that it can be smoother.

I have never changed the height correctors but I have measured and adjusted the rear one at one point. It would be useful to have some kind of gauge which would tell you the average height above ground.

Perhaps for test purposes something hanging down on a string rubbing on the road would tell you if it was too high.
David

BX19TRS 118K E Reg 1992-2008
BX19TRS auto abs 96k F Reg
BX19TXD 150k K Reg
mike st gilles
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Post by mike st gilles »

I'm having the same kind of thing with mine (93 Break TXD) in the 'initially smooth floaty ride' and then progressing to a firmer ride after a time.....I was wondering if this would be a symptom of 'tired' LHM and before wasting my money on a fluid change wondered what the concensus of opinion was.
I also experimented with the ride height on my MK1 RD many years ago (mainly as I wasn't happy with the ride and the fact that I had unlimited access to a platform lift) I noticed that the further down ie lower the ride height was set then the firmer the ride and I had this sort of confirmed by a specialist at the time who stated that the GTI and other sportier versions as well as having different (firmer) spheres also specced a lower ride height. This would seem to be borne out by the fact that I see many old(er) ladies in BX's in France with the suspension set to a very high level (although obviously not set with the height lever as this would be undriveable). I did wonder about the soft spheres as thats really what I'm after.....comfort.
Mike
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90 BX TZD Auto lives in France. 93 BX TXD Estate having had Ken Newbolds magic wand waved over it. 98' Honda Deauville NTV650.. '86 Fiat Ducato Swift Kontiki Camper
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Post by ellevie »

People say the ride improves for a short time (a few days) after changing the LHM but my belief is that the real reason Citroen recommend changing the LHM periodically is to reduce abrasive wear on the hydraulic system (especially the pump) as the LHM becomes excessively contaminated with fine particles over time.

I have several times tried putting the height lever in between the notch settings to see if there is any effect on the high frequency response but I could never detect any change.
David

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Post by maxgreenwood »

i've been out in the estate today and have been doing lots of citaerobics, its definately alot smoother now, it floats along, although the struts are creaky at the top of their travel but it doesn't seem to affect the ride too much in the middle. They've been off Robin's old car for a while so i guess they just need working in.

After a while of driving though, the front still kinda seizes up. When i notice it and push the level to intermediate the car pushes and jumps up and i can hear a creak and it getting through the stickiness. I guess this must be the struts, but why are they going 'dry' after normal driving in normal height?

Its riding a bit lower at the front than it did on my old struts - i wonder if they were properly 'home' in the bottom clamp. - one of my old struts had the car higher on one side than the other by about 1cm, which is no longer the case with these new ones.

Its also running on 3 'Arrowspeed' tires - never seen these mentioned anywhere and one Continental from the spare on the drivers side front at the moment. I think i'm going to order 2 Michelin energy saver tyres for the front - i've found some new for €58 and i'm guessing the softness will help with the small / high frequency stuff transmitted through the suspension.

I think maybe half the thing with these cars is that when the suspension is so floaty with nice soft spheres, - i have the normal estate ones, not TD spec ones on mine, you feel like it should feel like driving on water and i get disappointed with small niggly bump being transmitted. Its very subjective and seen as i havn't driven any other BXs, i don't know what to compare it to. My old ZX avantage was pretty smooth. I'm guessing my current tyres are cheap and a bit crap so seen as i need 2 for the front anyway i might as well go for the recommended michelin and see what difference that makes.
'92 16TXS (m), Dark metallic green, 74k
'90 16TZS (m), White, 86k
'89 19TRS auto, Olympic Blue, 133k
'88 Saab 900 8v Turbo (auto) 107k Red with Tan leather, lovely drive and well maintained.
'07 Hyundai Santa Fe 2.2 CRDi 85k (m). Practical family wagon
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Post by MULLEY »

I must admit i dont know whether any of mine actually ride the way i think they should. The gti has the best ride quality out of the lot, no idea why, perhaps it was looked after better by the previous owners than my other cars.

What i can say is that stutter type bumps just dont suit the bx at all, the car really feels them. If its a very sharp bump like a pothole, it bangs the suspension quite hard which is felt right through the steering wheel, if they are anything other than that type of impact, the bx is pretty good.

Is this just normal for the bx, or are my cars kinda knackered?
2002 C5 2.0 HDI Estate - Jasmine - Now SORN
2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - SOLD
2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - My daily
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired.
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN

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maxgreenwood
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Post by maxgreenwood »

Is this just normal for the bx, or are my cars kinda knackered?
exactly what i'm wondering. Robin reckoned mine was good so i'm kinda happy with it apart from the front seizing up which hopefully i can sort with time, might try swapping the struts with the ones on the 17TGD seen as they've only got 80k on them and they seem smooth, see if that improves things. And having done them once with Robin i now know how to do it pretty quickly. And better tyres i gather make a difference from looking at threads on here.

The 17 itself needs new spheres and a new battery and a good wash! so its kinda laid up. And an NCT and tax...
'92 16TXS (m), Dark metallic green, 74k
'90 16TZS (m), White, 86k
'89 19TRS auto, Olympic Blue, 133k
'88 Saab 900 8v Turbo (auto) 107k Red with Tan leather, lovely drive and well maintained.
'07 Hyundai Santa Fe 2.2 CRDi 85k (m). Practical family wagon
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Post by rob-81 »

None of my hydro Citroens (BX's, Xantia's, a Xm and A CX) have liked short sharp bumps (rumble strips and the like aften found round town). The XM and CX were particularly brilliant at every other sort of bump though. I wonder if it is just a compartitive weakness of hydropneumatic suspension (I remeber reading in a 90's Citroenian, a columnist recommending a Vauxhall Omega to someone who requested advice about a smooth riding car for use round town :twisted: )
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