It's because I just booked the MOT....

[Aerodynamica]

So I book the MOT for first thing Monday and proceed to visit the BX to do a pre test check - lights/horn wipers all ok, brakes, hand brake (verging on a bit high) and no sign of any rust - slight blow at rear exhaust box but all easy fixes.

I'm just about done and after taking Cyril for a quick spin including some heavy braking to wake the brakes, I roll him back in and then carefully moved up the drive again. Walking back to close the gates and set off in the CX I notice a little dark stain.

Touch and inspect and of course it's LHM... good grief - this car has been the most leak free of any car I've owned of all liquids until now.

Looked under the rear and find this picutre:


Looks like it's going to be a brake caliper or supply pipe. Not taken the wheel off yet - shall we take bets on what has gone?

It waits until I book the test before it springs a leak...

[DLM]

Caliper piston seal or caliper pipe union?

Adjusting contrasts and blowing up your pic, lhm seems to be dripping down from the inside front end of the disc protector. As it's not vast amounts by the look of it a pipe seems less likely to me, given that a pinholed pipe can spray a lot out in a short space of time..

[Aerodynamica]

Hopefully nothing too expensive....

Why did you need to adjust the contrast? does this picture come across badly exposed?

[DLM]

No, nothing wrong with the pic - I just wanted to see what wasn't in direct light.

If I can't see an area of a pic because it's in a shadow, for example (e.g. an ebay pic of something I'm interested in), I'll open it up in another browser tab, copy it into a freeware picture viewer called Irfanview, then I can manipulate the contrast or crop it - like so:

[Aerodynamica]

Ah! interesting. I was concerned that photos I'd taken on DSLR with no post processing were appearing differently to other people on different VDUs (mine is on a laptop)

Anyway, back OT, I'll report back once I have looked at the brakes.

[Aerodynamica]

Well! it wasn't the pipe seal.

and it wasn't the piston seals.

It was a grogging great rust hole..



And here's the jet of LHM mist captured!


But of course the pipe union nuts were stuck fast on either end.... so I dowsed them in easing fluid and went on to the other part of today's plan.
To change out the crappy, leaky exhaust section.


The old exhaust had some serious issues of being stuck at the middle join. The connection to the rear box was already mostly out due to being rusted through.
Finally after an hour or more struggle, out came the old one.


The fragment lft in the back box where the old pipe broke off was a 'mare to get out - I had to do this:


Finally refitted


Took off the caliper to facilitate removal of the stuck pipe - easy


Finally got the pipe out in 4 bits


So hopefully tomorrow my Citroen indie mate can get a new pipe made up to refit and it'll be ready for Monday's MOT!!!!!!!

[ken newbold]

Always amazes me how you guys have the patience to take pictures as you do the jobs me I just can't wait to get the car back on it's feet and put the tools away.

However, back to business.

Did you manage to unscrew the bleed nipple in readiness for the rebuild? and now the really bad news, did you manage to undo the bleed nipple on the other side
It might pay you to change both brake pipes at the same time, they've probably both done the same miles, and if the one you've taken out is anything to go by, it's probably knacked.

Sorry but it's better to find out before you hand over the 40 odd quid for the MOT

[jonathan_dyane]

If the new pipe is to be made of kunifer or similar, it may be best to regard it as a temporary fix, as I believe it is ill-suited to the curly-wurly pipes as it work hardens and may fatigue due to the constant flexing with the suspension travel. This was certainly the case when copper pipes were used as a replacement for the same brake pipe on the G.

[Aerodynamica]

That's a good point - and I have not checked the other bleed nipple better fetch the blow torch since I've been working on this one on location..

They probably have each done the same miles - the only variable I can think of is that the rusted one is on the 'gutter' side and perhaps subject to a bit more grot(?)

As for taking pix during work! - it's an excuse to take a rest stop!

Jonathan: that's interesting - I never did hear of this. Surely the number of coils and relatively small angle of torsion prevents this? are you sure the coils on the G were not abrading as the G has the coils within the armbearing housing whereas the BX etc have them externally with less risk of fouling/abrasion.

Anyway, The only thing on my mind for tomorrow's work os the unchecked bleed nipple....

[jonathan_dyane]

Jonathan: that's interesting - I never did hear of this. Surely the number of coils and relatively small angle of torsion prevents this? are you sure the coils on the G were not abrading as the G has the coils within the armbearing housing whereas the BX etc have them externally with less risk of fouling/abrasion.

It's not something that I have experienced first hand, but something that 'old hands' have warned me about and I thought worth repeating. Certainly I have fitted copper rear brake pipes to A series cars without problem, despite the fact that although they obviously don't settle like a hydropneumatic car, the movement the pipes are subject to in driving is probably greater due to long travel suspension, longer suspension arms, and the softness of the springing which gives for a wide variation in ride height according to load.

[Aerodynamica]

I see what you mean, I heard from old hands too about the fracturing of CuNi pipes but it was a specific pipe on a specific Citroën (SM) that was found to break. I'll still use the CuNi pipe though (not least as that's my only option in the time frame!)

I'll report back soonwise

G.

[citro-geoff]

Hi Grahame,I've used the cupronickel pipe for the curley pipes a a CX 10 years ago and they are still on there without cracking.As long as you use the same number of turns and similar diameter,and of course the same fixing points I can't see a problem.The BX ones are so cheap I keep them in stock,although I haven't replaced one on a later car in the last few years as they are coated.Yours probably went as they were the early type,uncoated.

[DLM]

although I haven't replaced one on a later car in the last few years as they are coated.

I can assure you they still do fail ... I've replaced a number of coated rear brake curlies on various BXs, though I think most were originals. Having said that, I think nearly all were done as preventative work, rather than due to actual failure. Most of the rusty pipe sections were in the last couple of inches before the caliper.

[Aerodynamica]

Anyway, The only thing on my mind for tomorrow's work os the unchecked bleed nipple....

Why did I tempt fate with that statement... no the bleed nipple didn't snap off - in fact I never did even get to bleed the brakes because that action would represent the home stretch of a job done.

Today's was day of FAIL.

Normal people go away and do stuff on holiday week ends - I spent all day today on the BX

Started well: I iz haz my new curly:


And the bits and fixings all at the ready for a nice easy couple hours' work.


Fitting



All done and fitted - time to bleed dem brakes. So I started up set the height to high and waited - there was a audable hisssssss! from the rear - I imagined air being purged but no! the green mist descended and a puddle was forming.... O gonads.


Here is where the photos get scarce as I never got the chance to take any in the rush to find what was leaking and how to save it!

Anyway, after some action moves to save some LHM I discovered that the popped pipe was the one leading from the rear suspension K-piece to the brake doseur for the rear brakes - a long and windy pipe. I have changed this on a CX and it was extremely unpleasant to do - the BX however has a really nice set of pipe connections at the front sub frame so that the pipe is replaced from this junction (and not including the winding, invisible and unreachable section thereafter up to the brake valve like on the CX) so that was something at least.

I called my Citroen indie mate in Glasgow and he said he could do me another pipe after the curly I'd got this morning. So off I set again after measuring it as 3m 61.

Got back and the unenviable task of refitting this pipe began. The worst bit being at the rear N/S wheel arch where it is difficult to route It's also the exact spot where the pipe blew.

- it took quite some time to determine exactly where it fractured and the route of the pipe.
The car was on ramps and so couldn't have its wheel removed. I set about getting the rear suspension to go up by connecting a long spare return pipe from a CX to the vacant port of the K junction and then bent over the other end and crushed with mole grips - it held! and the suspension could be raised and left while I was getting the replacement and then fitting it.

A couple of hours later and it was all ship shape, the car was on the ground with the suspension on high and the new pipe in place. Just to bleed the brakes again. I put the suspension on normal height to ease reversing onto the ramps again and it obliged......




..... with an almighty great plume of GREEN SMOKE again!!!!!

- you guessed it there was ANOTHER sudden hydraulic leak - this time easy to find as it was the rear corrector return - the leak was in the exact same place as the previous leak - NS rear wheel arch where the 4 F-R pipes turn onto the inner sill. I didn't know it until now but this is a weak spot on the BX I think.

So another pipe popped and no replacement. Remember the MOT is in the morning. I removed all of the old return pipe - this really IS a long pipe and it goes from the corrector, to the near side, along the sill with the other 3 pipes, to the front sub frame, across to the off side and then vanishes up under and ahead of the steering rack - no intermediate connection for this pipe no! it then joins a rubber return hose that routes up with many others (some from the dreaded octopus....) and joins the LHM tank.. I was going to try to use the CX return pipe I had there but argh, can't as I mauled the end earlier to turn it into a hydraulic fuse!!!

I made one long winded attempt to bodge a return pipe out of the remains of the good length of the old one and the length of the CX pipe with the mashed end cut off and a length of LHM return rubber hose joining them about the car's center but it was an act of FAIL since the operating return pressure is too high to contain like this....

SO! the MOT is off for tomorrow as I'll now need to get a third pipe from my friend....

I think I hate this car now.

This is what happens to Mk 1 BXes without the coated pipes when you take them North..

[ken newbold]

This is usually the case, I didn't want to put the mockers on your job earlier but unless your pipes have been well oiled and protected during routine maintenance you're going to find they all need changing

When I say all, I mean the front to rears, both rear brake pipes and both rear suspension pipes, it might also be worth changing the front brake pipes as well, just for peace of mind.

This also happens with the later "coated" pipes unless they are oiled from time to time, the coating gets dry and scabs start to appear, before you know where you are, hsssssssss!

Look on the bright side, you've still got your 40 odd quid in your pocket and not got a fail notice.