Hydraulics and suspension question

Leapfrog · Post by **Leapfrog** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:56 pm

Hi,

I am thinking of buying a 1990 BX TZI Automatic and have a couple of questions to ask. I have never owned a BX before and was very impressed with the performance, handling and ride of the car when I took it for a test drive.

One problem is that the rear of the car makes a very loud creaking noise as the hydraulic suspension is raised. What is causing this noise and is it a major problem - as I say the ride is extremely comfortable when moving but the creaking noise on initial pumping up of the suspension is worrying me.

Also, when the ignition is turned on there is an alarm sound which goes off as the suspension is pumped up and stops when the suspension is at the correct ride height. I have seen start-ups of BX's on Youtube and none of them made the alarm sound. Is this a fault or, as the owner says, just a warning to not drive off until the suspension reaches its proper height. If it is it an alarm can it be disconnected?

Your comments would be appreciated

Aerodynamica · Post by **Aerodynamica** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:15 pm

Hi and welcome!

I think the creaking noise you've been hearing will be the notorious rear suspension trailing arm bearings. These can be repaired fairly easily by the DIY mechanic with fairly good facilities. The bearings themselves (two per arm) can be bought from GSF and Euro car parts. If it's to be done in a garage it'll cost over £200 for the labour (maybe more?)

As for the alarm: not sure myself - usually it's only a big red STOP warning light that comes on before the hydraulics are all pressurised. Having said that: I believe that Australia market Citroens had a warning siren for the hydraulics in addition to the light to meet the Auz requirements - are you in Australia or UK or where?

DLM · Post by **DLM** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:37 pm

One problem is that the rear of the car makes a very loud creaking noise as the hydraulic suspension is raised. What is causing this noise and is it a major problem - as I say the ride is extremely comfortable when moving but the creaking noise on initial pumping up of the suspension is worrying me.

Nothing whatever to do with the hydraulics, I'm pretty sure. This sounds like the rear-arm bearings need replacement, and is a definite bargaining point . Repair kits containing all the parts for the bearings are £30-ish a side - though the repair may become problematic if this job has been left too long, as the bearing housings may become damaged.
The normal giveway is that when the suspension is set to full height (maintenance-only setting), the rear wheels lean inward when viewed from the rear like so /--\ as opposed to a normal upright position |---|.

This doesn't always happen - the needle bearings can corrode in their cages - and both could start to break up without the characteristic leaning symptom.

If the rear suspension moves smoothly through its travel, and the lean-in is not severe, then the likelihood is that damage will not have taken place - though action is required.

It's also the sort of job where other problems may come to light along the way if maintenance has been skimped-on (rusty brake pipes, seized anti-roll bar retaining bolts, rusty rear discs - though some of these would become apparent if the rear wheels of the car are removed).

Many hydropneumatic Citroens have this arrangement, and and it's a bit of a rite of passage for the DIY owner - there must be a sticky somewhere here, or references you can find using the search option for this forum.

If you're not a DIY-type owner, get a quote from an independent specialist for this job before proceeding any further with the purchase, or get the current owner to fix it - a keen BX owner should not be selling a BX to a first-time buyer without acknowleging that this repair is required.

Also, when the ignition is turned on there is an alarm sound which goes off as the suspension is pumped up and stops when the suspension is at the correct ride height. I have seen start-ups of BX's on Youtube and none of them made the alarm sound. Is this a fault or, as the owner says, just a warning to not drive off until the suspension reaches its proper height. If it is it an alarm can it be disconnected?

Frankly, this is a weird one. It sounds like a homespun mod as a reminder to the owner or a member of their family who drove the car. Not a standard feature at all, though it does show ingenuity! As such, the current owner would have the best idea how to disable it, if they were responsible for it in the first place.

DLM · Post by **DLM** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:42 pm

As usual I've got a bit verbose in my reply, and learned something from the person who got in there with a reply before me. I never knew about the Aussie/NZ warnings. If you're in this part of the world, head straight for the Aussiefrogs forum for local advice on buying and specs.

kiwi · Post by **kiwi** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:26 pm

DLM wrote:As usual I've got a bit verbose in my reply, and learned something from the person who got in there with a reply before me. I never knew about the Aussie/NZ warnings. If you're in this part of the world, head straight for the Aussiefrogs forum for local advice on buying and specs.

how very true is that

The key reason for coming to the BxClub UK is it specialises in BXs where as aussie frogs I noted a lot of "advice" from members that dont have BXs. Which tends to mislead sometimes. That plus the google search engine locates this website very quickly

Back to the problems

Creeking noise I reckons been answered with the rear bearings at fault! Also a less obvious possibility is the Rear Brakes/discs could be a bit worn, stone or Rusty. Worth a look anyways!

The Siren/buzzer noise! Well sorry Aerodynamica I am unsure on that being a Australian Spec! But that said I am in New Zealand so that makes a hell of a differance probably? In 3 BXs I have played around with suspension down under none have this Hydraulic Light buzzer and I have no idea of its location! In fact I have never come across one in 20 years of BX ownership evn in europe.

If it can be retrofitted or connected I want one

Aerodynamica · Post by **Aerodynamica** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:23 am

Ah, but Dudes, I said I wasn't sure! I thought I heard once that Aussie spec cars had a buzzer linked to the warning light.

The same Aussie rules demanded that the CX cars at least had to have a second brake accumulator fitted, significantly altering the hydraulic circuit. This meant that Aussie CXs have 3 accumulators.

No, I'm curious about this myself!

kiwi · Post by **kiwi** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:01 am

Australia is a flippin mystery to me as well

Give an example I waded into a debate over snow chains/snowtyre use in Australia. Pretty much went in there based on past UK/Europe and current NZ snow experiance. Came out if it surprised to learn a few things and licking a wound or two

The debate was how the New South Wales Road Agency was proposing compulsory carrying/fitting of snow chains to 4wd on certain roads in winter. Very enlightening and I bet to you guys who didnt know that it snows in Australia

Leapfrog · Post by **Leapfrog** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:34 am

........ Having said that: I believe that Australia market Citroens had a warning siren for the hydraulics in addition to the light to meet the Auz requirements - are you in Australia or UK or where?

You guessed right - I am in Sydney !

Thanks for the advice on the rear bearings - I'll knock some money off the asking price to pay for repair bills.

As for the alarm - I'll make enquiries with the local New South Wales Citroen club.

I want to buy the car and get back in to the Citroen community - I had a CX GTI Turbo II in the UK before I came down here and miss driving it. The price of used Citroens in Oz is astonishing : about three/four times the equivalent UK price !!

RxBX · Post by **RxBX** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:39 am

Hi and Welcome 'Leapfrog',
All has been really answered as to the potential problems which you'll buying with this BX so get the seller to get it fixed or reduce the price to cover the cost if there not prepared to pay to have it done, unless you can DIY (and the car is already cheap enough) !
But to give you an overview, there's THIS recent thread which highlights the problems you'd be taking on.
Best of luck !

kiwi · Post by **kiwi** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:11 am

Leapfrog, is the buzzer a legal requirement then in New South Wales?

And please come back and let us know where it is located or should be? I am interested to see if the Kiwi spec had this added but not connected.

DLM · Post by **DLM** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:37 am

Mr verbose back again. It's just the way I am, Kiwi...

The key reason for coming to the BxClub UK is it specialises in BXs where as aussie frogs I noted a lot of "advice" from members that dont have BXs. Which tends to mislead sometimes.

Of course it no longer has Alan S to dispel potential BX bullshit - though there are some very knowledgeable Aussie BX owners on there.

I know and have met one a couple of times, even if he's at the other end of the continent from NSW, or in some far-flung corner of the world through work commitments at any given time. Of course, there's also a chance the seller could be on there already, or lurking, or selling the BX through it..

But there is the local parts/labour pricing issue, as you know...

Also a less obvious possibility is the Rear Brakes/discs could be a bit worn, stone or Rusty. Worth a look anyways!

Good call, certainly easy to check.

Leapfrog · Post by **Leapfrog** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:45 pm

Hi, I posted a question about the alarm on the Aussiefrogs forum.

It turns out that the alarm buzzer was an Australian legal requirement in addition to the STOP sign. The alarm can be disconnected at the fusebox and some Aussie owners have done that so as to avoid the annoying sound.

B-Hive · Post by **B-Hive** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:31 pm

Leapfrog wrote: It turns out that the alarm buzzer was an Australian legal requirement in addition to the STOP sign. The alarm can be disconnected at the fusebox and some Aussie owners have done that so as to avoid the annoying sound.

Hehehe... Australian laws can be over protective..maybe the buzzer is for the "visually challenged" driver

Find where the buzzer is and put an in line kill switch. I incidentally dont have a buzzer .(85 TRS) strange cos Australian archaic overkill sorta kicked in about '79..

mike st gilles · Post by **mike st gilles** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:42 am

<Hehehe... Australian laws can be over protective..maybe the buzzer is for the "visually challenged" driver>
I seem to remember Alan surmising in an ancient far off thread that the reason for this 'buzzer' is on those lines.....not that the Aussie owners are at all myopic; just that with the bright sunlight (most) of the time in Oz, there was a likelihood of the warning light not being obvious.....I know that the main problem over there is not rust as here but U/V degradation of the interior of the car!!

kiwi · Post by **kiwi** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:29 am

[quote="mike st gilles] the main problem over there is not rust as here but U/V degradation of the interior of the car!![/quote]

The same strong Aussie sun shines just as harsh in the Land of the Long White Cloud

Of course me being up on a Plateau around the 800m range does not help against the UV rays either. Rust is a problem mainly confined to the Coastal areas and the areas it rains a lot ie West Coast south island and Auckland

Which probably explais why most cars seem to be white or now the more modern ones are silver....pretty boring really.

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Hydraulics and suspension question

Hydraulics and suspension question

Hydraulics and Suspension