Grr - where can water escape invisibly from?

Oscar · Post by **Oscar** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:58 pm

Yep. We've lost 250ml from 20 fast miles and 10 miles trundling around town. I don't have time or money to do a proper head job at the moment, so K-Seal it will be, and then we'll see what happens. Kiwi I don't like it either, but needs must at the moment.

themildbunch · Post by **themildbunch** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:22 pm

good luck with the seal.. I had a similar problem recently on our TZD...

at a specialist cost a little over £800 - head off, pressure tested, skimmed, valves shimmed etc.. cambelt changed, some new hoses etc.. a lot of work really and a lot of money for an old BX but the head's perfect now and ready to put another 100,000 miles on...

ken newbold · Post by **ken newbold** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:09 pm

So are you sure it's the HG?

Oscar · Post by **Oscar** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:30 am

ken newbold wrote:So are you sure it's the HG?

Well, as I've said throughout the thread, I can't see water escaping from anywhere else. If you have an idea, I'd be grateful to hear it.

messerschmitt owner · Post by **messerschmitt owner** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:22 am

I would carefully check the hoses in case it is a pin hole leak that only happens under pressure.

If the HG is leaking, it is most likely to give some symptoms - such as bubbles in the coolant and/or hard (s in pressurised) coolant/radiator hoses. As an experiment, why not try running the car with the header tank cap loose. What is likely to be happening is that coolant is forced out of the overflow when the pressure has built up. If the lid is loose (or not tight) that may relieve some of the pressure. Radweld or similar may repair a pinhole but not the kind of leak associated with a head gasket failure. You will probably have to give up with the spirited driving for a while and drive a little more sedately until you can fix the fault. You can drive for a little while with a blown gasket, as long as it is not forcing water into the oil or down a cylinder in quantity. Gentle driving will relieve the pressure.

ken newbold · Post by **ken newbold** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:55 am

Exactly what he /\ said.

I've know so many XUD headgaskets go but always the same i.e. pressure in the cooling system, only once have I seen one fail with coolant in the oil and this thing was smoking like a mill chimney.

I've also known the armoured hoses down behind the engine split right at one end due to constant movement and vibration and the escaping coolant evaporates because everything around it is so hot.
Radiator leaks do the same and can take some finding.

The ZX I changed the water pump on recently, has a water leak I would have never found, it only leaked when hot and the leak was so slight it never got below the timing belt covers before it evaporated.

I've never used radweld or such things, I believe they are "emergency get you home fixes"

Of course it's your car Oscar but personally I wouldn't want to set off on a very long journey knowing I was relying on some gunge I've put in the cooling system, if it doesn't work it could clog up the system and even worse end up frying the head if you lose enough coolant.

Post by **Defender110** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:40 pm

ken newbold wrote:I've never used radweld or such things, I believe they are "emergency get you home fixes"

Of course it's your car Oscar but personally I wouldn't want to set off on a very long journey knowing I was relying on some gunge I've put in the cooling system, if it doesn't work it could clog up the system and even worse end up frying the head if you lose enough coolant.

Totally agree, horrible sh_te that tries to glogg up everything!

Oscar · Post by **Oscar** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:03 pm

Well, we did a hot pressure test at Medway Citroen today and we found a small leak off the skinny top hose on the off-side of the radiator. I'm not convinced it's the main cause of the water loss as I never saw any steam or water from there over the past few days, but I'm prepared to accept that it is, that it only manifest under pressure and this is the reason. I'd be delighted if it is. So again I've topped up and will whizz about for a few days to see how it goes. I've bought, but not used, a bottle of K-Seal anyway, because the initial 1.5 litre top-up is always at the back of my mind.

Post by **docchevron** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:48 pm

K-seal struggles with diesels I find.. Steel Seal on the other hand is EPIC.. just very time conduming and fiddly to apply.. and it aint cheap.

Gibbo2286 · Post by **Gibbo2286** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:02 pm

Let's just say that after 60 years in the garage trade I've never found anything better than Barseal, and please forget the bloody boiled egg idea it doesn't work and it clogs the radiator tubes, once in the only way to get it out is to dismantle the radiator.

Over the years i've seen all sorts of rubbish used in attempts to stop rad leaks, salt, porrige, eggs, even cow muck

, chewing gum on the outside will get you home if you've got a pinhole stone chip in the tubes but the rest of it is a no no. Gibbo.

kiwi · Post by **kiwi** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:08 pm

Hey Gibbo I was not saying use an ege I was saying you might as well use an egg with some of the snake oil wonder cures about

Oscar, I cant find the thread (way back in 07) when I had the same dilemma as you with my TZS. It took over a year to be finally confirmed.

Pressure test did the same thing as you it found a leak in a hose! No visible signs of Radiator bubbling! No Oil in the water or water in the Oil!
No visible leaks (other than from the pressure test).

Yet the water was disapearing every trip! Somes times worse on a short trip than a long trip! Garage with 40 years experiance couldnt confirm it one way or another.

Like I said it went internally! My guess was the blast to 160kph to see how fast the car could get before I ran out of road (easy done around here) combined with a 3 week layover probably sorted it once and for all.

I wish I took a photo of the gasket when it was removed the area of rot was small yet caused the problem.

scarecrow · Post by **scarecrow** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:47 pm

Oscar, are you about in the morning (Sunday)? I can ring you for directions - what sort of time suits you? I'd be happy to lend my inexpertise to your problem!

Did Medway fit a new hose then? How's your water level now?

Steve

scarecrow · Post by **scarecrow** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:49 pm

Uncle Tom used to sprinkle cement in his radiator.

He was always changing cars.

Oscar · Post by **Oscar** » Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:26 am

scarecrow wrote:Oscar, are you about in the morning (Sunday)? I can ring you for directions - what sort of time suits you? I'd be happy to lend my inexpertise to your problem!

Did Medway fit a new hose then? How's your water level now?

Steve

Yes, give us a call if you like - I'm out from about 11.15 - 1.30, and had kind of promised SWMBO a blast to Whitstable, mostly to check the leakage but also to eat ice-cream - would you like to come?

Oscar

Oscar · Post by **Oscar** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:10 pm

Well, Scarecrow came around and performed a laying-on of hands ceremony, and the subsequent trip to Whitstable and back didn't show significant water loss - perhaps some, but nothing like what we've had recently. I shall swap the K-Seal for barseal, and tuck it into the toolbox anyway. We'll risk Groliffe for the France trip, if it all goes tits up we've got Swampy, if not, it's about time we started running Groliffe properly.

I'll let you know......