Dead diesel fuel pump and biodiesel

ritmo · Post by **ritmo** » Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:23 pm

Hi Everyone,

I have a bit of a problem with my TZD turbo. I've been trying to get some answer so I can go about fixing it. If any of you could help, it would be very much appreciated.

Background:

I have a lovely 1993 BX TZD turbo estate. I have recently been running it on veg oil (mixed 50/50 with derv) which has been going very well until a couple of weeks ago. Suddenly I had loss of power, couldn't get up to 20mph and the engine won't get over 2500revs. I've heard that it's most likely the fuel pump. Sounds about right considering the veg fuel and the fact I have a crap Lucas pump. If you think it could be anything else, please say!

If it is my fuel pump, I would like to take this opportunity to make her veg fuel proof. I have a good supplier here in Glasgow. I really like the idea of giving my fuel money to a fella in Glasgow rather than a big multinational! Also we have plentiful supplies of used chip fat in Glasgow.

So my questions to you if you know:

Can I swap its Lucas pump with a Bosch one?
Can I use a bosch pump that's meant for a XUD9 turbo as these are much easier to find? ie from a 306, xantia, etc?
Can you recommend a good pump to go for?
Does anyone know where I can get hold of veg resistant seals (Viton I heard are good) so I can recondition any pump I do get?
Any other veg recommendations for the fuel line?

Thanks in advance.

Jake

Dollywobbler · Post by **Dollywobbler** » Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:49 pm

Before getting carried away - when did you last change the fuel filter? Swapping to bio will lead to this needing frequent replacement initially, as the veg oil will clear out the fuel lines for you.

Ran a Merc 300D on veg and power would drop off sometimes after as little as a few hundred miles.

ritmo · Post by **ritmo** » Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:58 pm

I changed it about 100miles ago. I know about the fuel filter issues. It hasn't had much bio since I changed the filter. Mostly normal diesel.

Another point to add, I have only used about 2 or 3 tanks worth of bio. So if anyone else is thinking of using bio with a lucas pump: don't! Unless you're happy to fix it pretty soon....

Vanny · Post by **Vanny** » Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:49 pm

I've a mate who ran a 1.7 diesel on bio with a lucas pump without any problems for 10 months or so, however it did grow a bit of a problem. Something was growing in the fuel tank as a result of the bio diesel, it was a kind of guey fluff. This was making its way to the filter and blocking it up. The car was scrapped before we got to the end of the matter.

I don't know if you have the ability, but take a look into the fuel tank and see whats in there. Lift up the back seat, remove the black cap on the driver side, and remove the tank plug and you'll get a good view.

I've no idea how to kill a fungal infection in a fuel tank though.

Wooscary · Post by **Wooscary** » Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:52 pm

Are you talking Biodiesel or SVO?

ritmo · Post by **ritmo** » Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:37 pm

Processed bio-diesel bought from a re-processing place in Glasgow. Runs straight from the tank.

Wooscary · Post by **Wooscary** » Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:02 pm

Shouldn't actual biodiesel run no problem in almost any diesel engine (pre whatever date to take in to account modern injection systems etc) with fuel filter changes taken in to account?

I've had batches of "bad" bio that made a car run like crap, but generally it is absolutely fine.

SVO obviously a totally different matter...

electrokid · Post by **electrokid** » Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:12 pm

Hi Jake,

I have a crap Lucas pump

Very likely the problem.

plentiful supplies of used chip fat in Glasgow

Ahh - that's where it's all gone

Viton I heard are good

Good for almost everything.

Any other veg recommendations for the fuel line?

Don't use copper pipe or copper anywhere in contact with the fuel.
Cheers,
Brian.

ritmo · Post by **ritmo** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:45 am

Well it does work fine. I get 800miles from a tank and the car isn't sluggish. But it seems to eat the seals in the lucas pump. The 1st symptom was a dead fuel stop solenoid. I opened it up and the seal on the end was wreaked.

Do I just get a set of Viton O-Rings? Or are there special shaped seals that I need?

And the most important question still, can I use a different pump? Ie, one from eg. a 306?

Thanks for your replies

Jake

ritmo · Post by **ritmo** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:49 am

Sorry Vanny, I missed your post.

I'll keep that in mind and have a look, but the fuel filter is clear. I haven't considered there could be a blockage somewhere else in the system though.

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:38 am

It's not just the seals on the Lucas pump that can be a problem - the rotor can seize and shear off the driveshaft so best to change the pump even if you can find seals.
I can't say for certain, but would think a 306 pump would run OK - you will have to change the injectors too though. I've bought seals from Diesel Bob before so might be worth a look to make sure a replacement pump has the right seals.

ritmo · Post by **ritmo** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:04 am

Injectors as well eh? Sounds a bit more expensive!

I suppose I should have a solid fuel system once it's all in though.

Anyone else know about a XUD9 turbo pump?

Thanks

sarahjaneking · Post by **sarahjaneking** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:56 pm

Hello there,

if you go for viton remember never ever to touch them if they have melted or they'll eat your flesh.

I'm a little confused as to what you are actually using. Actual Bio-diesel should cause no problems but your original post states 50/50 veg oil / derv. One thing I do know is that you should never ever ever mix veg(straight or used &filtered) with bio-diesel as this will clog your fuel system up with grey soap.

I've not run my BX on veg yet but ran my two previous vehicles on it very well, the main problem with the seals is not so much that the veg eats them but that they are way past their best to start with, a short term solution is normally to go back on to straight diesel until you can change them, diesel is thinner and exerts less pressure so if you catch it soon enough that usually works.

TBH at the minute it sounds like you are gunked up more than anything else,

tc

sarah x

Linegeist · Post by **Linegeist** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:22 pm

Just to muddy the water, I've run my TZD on 50% corn oil every summer for the last 5 years with a CAV pump and no problems. In fact the engine runs more smoothly on the 50/50 mix than its winter diet of 100% Derv.

I have no leaks, no seal issues and no filter problems................

sarahjaneking · Post by **sarahjaneking** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:04 pm

Linegeist wrote:Just to muddy the water, I've run my TZD on 50% corn oil every summer for the last 5 years with a CAV pump and no problems. In fact the engine runs more smoothly on the 50/50 mix than its winter diet of 100% Derv.

I have no leaks, no seal issues and no filter problems................

I always found that running on oil improved my speakers - as the engine was so much quieter

The higher calorific value also improves performance