Antifreeze Testing

[MULLEY]

I want to buy one of those testers to check that the antifreeze in the car is ok or not. There appears to be 2 types of tester:

1: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Laser-Antifreeze- ... 5d281a0355

2: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Laser-Antifreeze- ... 5ad75d990d

Which one do i need for the bx? I must admit that i've never bothered checking what type of anti-freeze i've used occasionally to top up the radiator, as i didn't realise there were different types

Is there any issue with mixing the 2 different types together?

Should i purchase a branded tester, or will any old one do? or does anyone have a recommendation?

[Defender110]

Mathew heres a usefull link, you would need to know what antifreeze is already in your engine which won't neccessarily be OEM;

http://www.aa1car.com/library/coolant.htm


Personally if your not sure how strong your coolant is or how long your coolant has been in I would just replace it with a minimum 50/50 mix and top it up with the same when needed to keep the strength consistent. I think keeping your corrosion inhibitors topped up is just as important as protecting your engine from freezing.

[electrokid]

Hi Matthew,

Ignore any info about the latest OAT technology antifreezes - that stuff is far too modern for us The testers measure the density of your coolant - ethylene glycol and propylene glycol based antifreezes are as good as each other as an antifreeze but they have different densities and that's why they need different testers - and you need to know which one you have in the coolant.

Inhibitors are dissolved salts which keep the coolant slightly alkaline - we all know how acids eat metal so keeping the coolant slightly alkaline stops the coolant becoming acidic and eating the engine from the inside. From memory a fresh coolant mix should be around 8.5 pH and if it gets down to 7.5 pH it's time to replenish the inhibitors. They used to sell the inhibitor top-up separately but if you go into a shop and ask these days they'll probably look at you as if you're dumb

The alkaline inhibitors react with any acids that are formed in the coolant so they are 'used up' - the coolant pH can be tested with test papers...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/UNIVERSAL-TEST-PA ... 5ada76b553

and keeping the inhibitors sweet is the main reason for not using tapwater in the rad - de-ionised water is cheap enough anyway.

I did a bit of research into what comes in the bottle from the car shop - my conclusion was that the 'neat' Bluecol - not the 'ready-to-use' stuff contains ethylene glycol, the inhibitors, and the blue dye only - so at least 97% ethylene glycol - so the mix percentage you want for the protection it gives can be worked out refering to the tables at...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_glycol

This gives the proportions by weight when the whole world and his dog measure liquids by volume - but there's not a great deal of difference so these tables are close enough to use as volume proportions.

There's stuff about propylene glycol at...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol

and a general overview at...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifreeze

I have some of the chemicals that are usually used as inhibitors (I was pissed off because the inhibitor product for the Granny was no longer available and I was going to mix my own ! ) so if there's a real chemist on BXClub rather than an amateur like me they may be able to make a decent recommendation.

[kiwi]

Firm believer in not mixing differant brands of anything critical to the smooth running of my cars (except petrol unless it is 91 octane shite)

Two ways basic ways to check antifreeze effectiveness!

1, empty small quantity into a plastic bottle and chuck in the freezer, if it freezes its no good.

2, Leave a tray out for the annoy residential cat population. If no more cats then nothing wrong with Antifreeze.

(NB:) ok ignore second test before someone gets upset over moggy killlings.

[Defender110]

so if there's a real chemist on BXClub rather than an amateur like me they may be able to make a decent recommendation.

Amateur?? your a real enough chemist for me buddy!

[Gibbo2286]

Kiwi, your 'put some in a plastic bottle in the freezer' ?

In a bottle in the freezer you have still air, driving at sixty mph through an icy winter wind would surely cause a much different temperature drop. Gibbo.

[electrokid]

Amateur?? your a real enough chemist for me buddy!

Why thank you Sir

Sometimes I get it right - sometimes I get it wrong. One time I was doing something acidic - around 1.5 pH - so before chucking down the drain I needed to neutralise it with some strong alkali so I sprinkled some in. Nothing much happened so I sprinkled some more - and then a bit more - and then the mixture got warm enough for the reaction to take place properly Fortunately this eruption was taking place in the sink. Not much fazes me - but I did stand back from that one

[kiwi]

Kiwi, your 'put some in a plastic bottle in the freezer' ?

In a bottle in the freezer you have still air, driving at sixty mph through an icy winter wind would surely cause a much different temperature drop. Gibbo.

Lets put it this way your freezer should be around -20c if it freezes or shows sign of freezing the concentration aint enough.

How often do you plan to drive in -20 conditions in the winter?

[Way2go]

Kiwi, your 'put some in a plastic bottle in the freezer' ?

In a bottle in the freezer you have still air, driving at sixty mph through an icy winter wind would surely cause a much different temperature drop. Gibbo.

Lets put it this way your freezer should be around -20c if it freezes or shows sign of freezing the concentration aint enough.

How often do you plan to drive in -20 conditions in the winter?

You're both missing the point, when you're driving the water is hot & circulating so there should be no problem in the main, anti-freeze or no anti-freeze. The problem is really when the car is stationary and the water freezes and expands in engine and rad if it's below the protection level (so Kiwi's freezer test would work for that).
When the engine is operational at a temperature of 90 deg and the external ambient is 20 below then the wind-chill on the rad/engine would have to be in excess of -110C to start it to freeze if your protection level was -20C.

[Gibbo2286]

I can just recall heavy trucks with sheared off water pump spindles because the impeller had frozen despite having what was considered adequate amounts of anti freeze in the system that would have passed Kiwi's 'in the freezer' test in what was considered a hard winter in the UK but certainly not arctic conditions. Gibbo.

[electrokid]

It really depends on what was 'considered adequate' and whether the trucks concerned were engine at the front with the water pump exposed to the first rush of cold air. It's fairly obvious that what was 'considered adequate' - wasn't !

If you don't know what's in the rad then a few drops in the freezer is a good start to finding out if it's any good. If antifreeze types have been mixed it's quite normal for the dye to change colour or fade completely - if ethylene g and propylene g have been mixed in unknown quantities it's impossible to tell the concentrations with the normal testers - sticking a bit in the freezer is a good way to see if you have some antifreeze present.

[kiwi]

Failing all that dont be a skin flint and flush and change the antifreeze anyways. After all it should be done every 2 years shouldnt it.

50/50 mixture is more than adequate for a UK winter.

[Way2go]

50/50 mixture is more than adequate for a UK winter.

I'd say! 33% antifreeze is more the mark giving protection to -18C. 50% antifreeze will protect to -33C looking at the ethylene glycol label today.

Just had a hose fail so with hose replaced have given it a flushing and currently on water temporarily. System seems good but considering using Barr's Flush to remove any limescale prior to refilling with the antifreeze.

[electrokid]

Cleaning any muck out of the system will allow the inhibitor that comes with the antifreeze to stay active for longer.

And any crud that gets in the way of hot water getting to automatic choke devices will delay the choke operation and enrich the mixture when you don't need it. If the hot water to the choke gets completely blocked you'll have permanent choke on which will cost bucketloads in fuel and will fail its MOT.

[kiwi]

50/50 mixture is more than adequate for a UK winter.

I'd say! 33% antifreeze is more the mark giving protection to -18C. 50% antifreeze will protect to -33C looking at the ethylene glycol label today.

pfft always done 50/50 you get funny looks from the big city folk when you mention antifreeze even more of a funny look when you tell them that litre of the stuff wont stop the engines freezing when they come down sking.

Nope maximum protection even if it is a bit over the top, gives room to water down if you spring a leak.