hows your bx in the snow

Mothman · Post by **Mothman** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:54 pm

I've also seen that while a 4x4 is better than 2wd, a well driven FWD car will run rings round a badly driven 4x4[/quote]

How do you drive a 4x4 in the snow badly?

I just get in mine, start her up and just go anywhere i want with no bother, no chains and i dont drive other than normally. The L200 is just like driving a normal car in 2wd but performs magnificently in 4wd. Mind you, the diff lock helps a bit.

Dollywobbler · Post by **Dollywobbler** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:54 pm

I managed to get my Land Rover stuck in the snow today, but that's because I was trying to drag my BX back to somewhere with a bit more grip...

Turns out that the BX just cannot get grip in conditions that the CX can really rather well. Very odd. There is a LOT of very fluffy snow here, and the lower levels are icy now.

Wish my chains had arrived!

Mark Dunmore · Post by **Mark Dunmore** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:44 pm

Grenman wrote:How do you drive a 4x4 in the snow badly?

Ask the driver of the inverted Land Rover I saw back when the cold snap first started here...

We didn't really get it so bad in the lowlands of this part of Lincolnshire, but apparently the Wolds were quite dreadful (another reason why I'm glad I don't have to travel over them to get to work these days!). However, when the BX estate of doom was on the road and that was my route, any bad snow was dealt with in the correct manner; drive slowly, and gentle on the controls. Compacted ice underneath is another matter, and when it gets to that stage you end up going at a snail's pace...

Talking of which, the 2CV managed to get me to and from work OK, although as mentioned earlier, conditions were not as harsh as some of you have experienced.

kiwi · Post by **kiwi** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:19 pm

Grenman wrote: How do you drive a 4x4 in the snow badly?

Easy you give it to some plank from Auckland who never sees snow on their day to day commute in the city to work and has no clue how to engage 4wd.

Transcribe that to the UK situation and you got a poorly driven 4x4

Mothman · Post by **Mothman** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 10:21 pm

However you hardly see many 4x4s abandoned by the side of the road when driving conditions are bad compared with 2wds do you?
The other Friday when it really got bad there were about 15 abandoned 2wds within about half a mile from me and no 4wds. I didnt see one over the whole duration of the snow. If the tyres are good then i think its hard to get one stuck in snow unless its deep. There were also many accidents and damaged vehicles, all 2wds. 4wds in difficulty were virtually non existant around here although there may have been the odd one.
But, getting back to the point, BXs just dont compare to a 4wd driven properly.
On the local minor roads around here it was easier to drive on the compacted frozen snow in my 4x4 than actually walk on it. Those who think Bxs are really magic and fantastic in snow are just kidding yourselves. As i said before, my Mazda is far far better.

Andy

kiwi · Post by **kiwi** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 10:43 pm

Grenman wrote:Those who think Bxs are really magic and fantastic in snow are just kidding yourselves.

Maybe because we believe in our BXs and luv erm to bits

I like a challenge.

Then again if we had no faith in our BXs why would we have this club?

Mothman · Post by **Mothman** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 10:48 pm

[maybe because we believe in our BXs and luv erm to bits

I like a challenge.

Then again if we had no faith in our BXs why would we have this club.

I totally agree with you re how much we love em and that the car is a challenge to keep on the road these days and for that i am truly grateful to this forum. But i like to 'hedge' my bets when the roads are dodgy and not go through them as i have seen other people do in this last week

.

As i have also said before, long live the BX and this forum.

Andy

kiwi · Post by **kiwi** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:04 am

Erm I was refering to the challenge of driving them in conditions that are challenging not keeping them mechnically on the road but physically on the road.

Ie driver style challenges

MULLEY · Post by **MULLEY** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:22 am

Got to disagree with you Andy, the BX diesel is easily the best car i've driven in wintry conditions when fitted with winter tyres, never driven it with summer tyres in winter so i won't comment on that.

Not got much exprience of 4x4's tbh, but my impression is that most people who own them are incapable of understanding the laws of physics so drive them in wintry conditions without any due regard purely because its a 4x4.

In theory a 4x4 should be superior than a 2wd, but i reckon a 2wd with winter tyres will be better than a 4x4 with summer tyres on. But who knows, my winter tyres are worn & they are certainly not as good as they were when new. Anyone driving around with worn summer tyres, i.e tread below 4mm will be struggling big style in 2wd & the 4x4's wont be all that much better.

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:03 am

MULLEY wrote:Not got much exprience of 4x4's tbh, but my impression is that most people who own them are incapable of understanding the laws of physics so drive them in wintry conditions without any due regard purely because its a 4x4.

From observation I'd generally agree with you there!

MULLEY wrote:i reckon a 2wd with winter tyres will be better than a 4x4 with summer tyres on.

Before this winter, I'd have been inclined to agree with you. But in identical conditions, the Disco coped with no drama on our track that the BX (equipped with chains) really struggled on. (This was before the snow built up in front of the BX bumper).

I don't know whether this was down to 4wd being better than 2wd, the fact that fluffy snow may not be ideal for chains, whether the Disco tyres are exceptionally good in snow(?)

whether the extra weight helped or the auto box meant that that motion could be applied very gently. Too many variables for a direct comparison, but we haven't been able to use the BX until the recent thaw. That said (as echoed above), no 4x4 system will give you invincibility and allow you to brake harshly and get away with it - however the low ratio box is very useful for allowing slow decents without touching the brakes.

kiwi · Post by **kiwi** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:32 am

MULLEY wrote:Not got much exprience of 4x4's tbh, but my impression is that most people who own them are incapable of understanding the laws of physics so drive them in wintry conditions without any due regard purely because its a 4x4.

Yup thats what I found with my years of experiance working a ski area!

In theory a 4x4 should be superior than a 2wd, but i reckon a 2wd with winter tyres will be better than a 4x4 with summer tyres on. But who knows, my winter tyres are worn & they are certainly not as good as they were when new. Anyone driving around with worn summer tyres, i.e tread below 4mm will be struggling big style in 2wd & the 4x4's wont be all that much better.

I have always kept my tyres above 4mm in winter for this very reason! Experiance of UK driving a BX has been as soon as the tread is below 4mm then the grip on snow is less!

But saying that snow tyres also lose effectiveness below 4mm of tread and in fact in NZ they are illegal when the get below 4mm unlike standard tyres which are allowed to 1.5mm.

Snow tyres offer a window for driving they are not the ultimate answer for snow driving, once snow becomes compacted or treads filled with light fluffy stuff any tyre can become less effective and snow chains are also another way to open that opportunity.

My experiance is that a vehicle not equipped with snow chains is more likely to stay on the road than one without and even one with snow tyres. A combination of snow chains and snow tyres is the ultimate in grip IMO.
Especially when gradiants that can not be replecated on a track are concerned.

Your level of effective grip is also variable on the amount of snow, its density (wet or soft fluffy) and compacting.

Most the problems I see experianced are when the snow has been compacted and not so much when your the first vehicle to squish it. When I drive down our mountain road I am on the look out for soft patches because I know the grip will be better through them.

Another overlooked issue with snow tyres is the level of grip in the wet is far from ideal! the higher the temperature above freezing the less the grip in fact they become dangerous. One of the reasons NZ introduced such draconian rules of minimum 4mm tread and must be fitted on all for corners was because of people driving around in the summer with them on. Also why a lot of european contrys give a date they should not be fitted. Although I forgeot it is never in double digits in the UK

[/quote]

Mothman · Post by **Mothman** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:26 am

My 4x4 dosnt have special chunky tyres and it absolutely pisses all over the BX in similar conditions and although i have been driving 4x4s for over 25 years i dont modify my driving techniques in it. I just get in it, put in gear and it goes anywhere i want in it. Regularly have to tow people out of difficulty. Could not begin to do that in the BX.
The BX most certainly isnt better, even if it was equiped with chains. As i said, my Mazda is better than the BX in similar conditions. I used them both in thes last lot of snow and the Mazda with its summer tyres performed much better. Neither the BXs or the Mazdas tyres were particularly worn.
Also, i dont agree with you that most 4x4 drivers dont know how to drive their vehicles. The majority do. Those that dont are generally the women using husbands toy to do the shool run[no offence intended] whilst he is at work and dont often get to use the vehicle in adverse conditions and that isnt their fault either.
My 4x4 didnt miss a beat in the snow, the BX was in my opinion and comparison a poor performer. I wont go out in it again in similar conditions, but then ime lucky enough to have a 4x4 for work. By the way, i am regularly off road with it at all times of the year due to my work.

Andy

Post by **Defender110** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:53 am

Grenman wrote: Also, i dont agree with you that most 4x4 drivers dont know how to drive their vehicles. The majority do. Those that dont are generally the women using husbands toy to do the shool run[no offence intended] whilst he is at work and dont often get to use the vehicle in adverse conditions and that isnt their fault either.
Andy

Totally disagree, IMO I think this does apply to most 4x4 drivers male or female and don't actually understand why you have picked out women drivers in this instance.

Mothman · Post by **Mothman** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:02 am

Well, we will just have to agree to disagree then.

Andy

electrokid · Post by **electrokid** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:35 am

Got to disagree with you Andy, the BX diesel is easily the best car i've driven in wintry conditions when fitted with winter tyres, never driven it with summer tyres in winter so i won't comment on that.

Yes - mine is very good too. Last winter on Michelins with good tread (expecting grip in snow with 4mm or less is silly anyway) was good but it was still capable of getting stuck in an icy rut.

This year on Vredestein Snowtrac 3 the snow simply hasn't been any problem at all - I'm sure it's down to tread pattern / suitability for the terrain etc - and having enough tread of course - and yes - a 2WD with the correct tyres will be better than a 4x4 with summer ditchfinders.

Mat - those Kingpins are decent on-road / off-road tyres with a very decent block tread so on the 4x4 they should be excellent in the snow and since you've shown us yours...