What do people think it's worth?

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christhelion
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What do people think it's worth?

Post by christhelion »

hi guys,


I was talking to a guy who was interested in my car yesterday. he'd seen the ad on ebay and called me about it. But anyway, he's been trying to get this site and join but it keeps failing when he clicks forum. I told him it must be at his end coz I use it all the time.
however, he rang me last night because he has a really clean TZD estate (I think he said) and it got rear ended. Insurance have offered him £250 and he rang me to see if I think it's worth that. I said I wasn't sure but I've seen them fetching around a grand or over sometimes?
It's an M-reg and he said it was tidy. That's all I know.

But am I right in thinking that a tidy TZD fetches a lot more than £250?
1992 BX GTi 4x4 in silver with all the extras. (sold and missed)
2000 Kawasaki Ninja ZX-9R E1
2000 Gilera DNA 50
2000 Ford Focus 1.8 Zetec
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Borrowed 2006 Kawasaki ZZR 1400

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Philip Chidlow
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Post by Philip Chidlow »

Depending upon condition, a road-worthy, taxed and tested example will fetch £475 to £900.
• 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• 2006 Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v

Gibbo2286
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Post by Gibbo2286 »

Insurance companies only pay what they call the 'true trade value'

I think they may be being fairly generous because the trade would only value any BX at a bit above scrap, they're not, like us, enthusiasts.

You may be able to negotiate a bit extra on the grounds that the car was in exceptional condition, if it was and the assessor agrees.

The best way to deal with this is to tell the insurer that you'll accept the offer provided you can keep the salvage, they're usually quite happy to agree, then you have some cash in your hand and the damaged car to either repair, break or weigh in. Gibbo.

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Stinkwheel
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Post by Stinkwheel »

Actually if someones hit him then the best way to deal with it is insist that your car is returned to pre accident condition at their insurance companies expense (your absolutely allowed to demand this in law)
Doctor Of Gonzo Journalism!!!
93 BX TZD Estate
90 BX 14TE St Tropez
93 BX 19 TXD Estate
92 BX 16TXi
77 Ami 8 Break
79 Acadiane
81 Dyane6
84 2CV6
85 GSA saloon rally car
To slightly mis-quote Kitch ... "BX 14. They're just brilliant!"

Gibbo2286
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Post by Gibbo2286 »

Stinkwheel wrote:Actually if someones hit him then the best way to deal with it is insist that your car is returned to pre accident condition at their insurance companies expense (your absolutely allowed to demand this in law)
In your dreams Stinky. Gibbo.

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Philip Chidlow
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Post by Philip Chidlow »

I was able to last year. Twice. However, in both cases the drivers who hit the BX admitted 100% liability. And it wasn't unrealistic to repair the car.

But if it isn't realistically repairable (assuming even parts are available still!) then in my experience you negotiate what it would cost to replace like with like to your satisfaction. I got the last assessor to agree on that basis to a value of £800 for my GTi.

That's my experience anyway. Gibbo, you might have had less 'fortunate' dealings? But the rules are the rules aren't they?
• 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• 2006 Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v

Gibbo2286
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Post by Gibbo2286 »

My dealings involve 61 years in the motor trade Phil, 22 of them in my own garage business dealing directly with the accident insurers, winners in challenges to insurers are a very rare commodity.

One of my customers had a dairy business running a fleet of delivery floats, he left a motorway a bit too fast and went through the end barriers in his Vanden-Plas Princess, which I have to say was an immaculate specimen, the insurer made him an offer, he grumbled, they upped the offer, he demanded more, threatened them with removal of all his fleet business and that he would get all members of his dairy association to do the same, they caved in and paid what he asked.

He bought a top of the range Alfa to replace the Princess, they wouldn't quote him a price to insure it, seventeen out of the twenty other companies approached also declined to quote, the three who would quoted figures that would make a millionaire's eyes water, he never got the car on the road and had to sell it at a huge $3k loss a couple of months later and revert to driving a Marina until he'd managed to rebuild a bit of reputation. Gibbo.

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Philip Chidlow
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Post by Philip Chidlow »

Maybe I was just lucky then! (Blimey that's rare).

Point taken. They'll screw you whichever way they can in the end.

I do think just over scrap is a derisory figure for a decent BX on the road though. Surely £450's worth pressing for? Or am I really in cloud cuckoo land? :lol:
• 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• 2006 Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v

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Stinkwheel
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Post by Stinkwheel »

Gibbo2286 wrote:
Stinkwheel wrote:Actually if someones hit him then the best way to deal with it is insist that your car is returned to pre accident condition at their insurance companies expense (your absolutely allowed to demand this in law)
In your dreams Stinky. Gibbo.
Not at all, ask a lawyer. In theory its totally what your rights allow you.

In practice its not always that easy.
Doctor Of Gonzo Journalism!!!
93 BX TZD Estate
90 BX 14TE St Tropez
93 BX 19 TXD Estate
92 BX 16TXi
77 Ami 8 Break
79 Acadiane
81 Dyane6
84 2CV6
85 GSA saloon rally car
To slightly mis-quote Kitch ... "BX 14. They're just brilliant!"

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mat_fenwick
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Post by mat_fenwick »

I don't know if and where the law states that in a no fault case, the other party has to return your car to pre-accident condition, but I've heard the anecdotal evidence a few times.

Certainly it seems morally correct for them to do so. If this was not the case then it still has to be worth arguing for a greater payout if you feel you've been short changed, as BX values are pretty small compared to most claims I would guess, so effectively they could pay out just to shut you up!

EDIT - Just seen your post Matt, I take it this is something you're certain of.
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Gibbo2286
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Post by Gibbo2286 »

As I've said the insurer will only pay true trade value, anything else would be considered 'betterment' (look it up) which you're not entitled to under any law.

The suggestion that they can be forced to restore you own car to its condition prior to the incident is a non runner, they cannot.

If you have a car with a trade value of £500 and it's going to cost £2,000 to fix you'll get £500 take it or leave it. You could of course chance your arm in county court by suing the other party for your uninsured losses but you will need to prove them. Gibbo.

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Vanny
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Post by Vanny »

Now this is an interesting thread, i always thought if the other party admitted responcibility then you COULD demand the car be returned to its pre crash condition i.e. like for like.

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Post by scarecrow »

It was the case when my Meteor was hit by a truck - it was written-off and I got the trade value and they let me keep the car (for another 6 years :wink: )

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Stinkwheel
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Post by Stinkwheel »

Gibbo2286 wrote:As I've said the insurer will only pay true trade value, anything else would be considered 'betterment' (look it up) which you're not entitled to under any law.

The suggestion that they can be forced to restore you own car to its condition prior to the incident is a non runner, they cannot.

If you have a car with a trade value of £500 and it's going to cost £2,000 to fix you'll get £500 take it or leave it. You could of course chance your arm in county court by suing the other party for your uninsured losses but you will need to prove them. Gibbo.

Well, i will happily take your post as gospel but i can honestly say that what you describe above that cannot and will not happen has happened to at least 2 of my personal friends. Were they lucky? Probably.
Doctor Of Gonzo Journalism!!!
93 BX TZD Estate
90 BX 14TE St Tropez
93 BX 19 TXD Estate
92 BX 16TXi
77 Ami 8 Break
79 Acadiane
81 Dyane6
84 2CV6
85 GSA saloon rally car
To slightly mis-quote Kitch ... "BX 14. They're just brilliant!"

Linegeist
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WARNING: Long ramble ......................

Post by Linegeist »

I've advised on this stuff professionally in the past - so here goes.

I habitually collect snippets about BX's for sale at unusually good prices on the internet, and I save them all on disk against the day some moron decides to park inside my own BX (assuming they HAVE insurance - that's the wildcard :evil:). These snippets/ads, along with the photos I take of the car from time to time along with proof that I am a bone fide enthusiast of that marque (memberships, magazines, tools, etc) and not some chancer after an easy buck, will all serve to demonstrate my car's above average condition, my concomitant right to compensation, and thus help me in a claim for full restitution. I've used this method twice before and won handsomely and quickly on both occasions.

In UK law, you have an absolute right to have any loss caused to you by a third party's negligence to be mitigated by them. In other words, if they cause you to lose out, you are entitled to expect them to pay back the amount of the loss. Thus, if you build a large pink sandcastle, and some moron negiligently knocks it down with a JCB (and you can prove it - carry a cheap disposable camera in your car at all times. Trust me, it's worth it) you are entitled, in law, to have it rebuilt by the person at fault.

It's how you go about getting it rebuilt that usually creates the complications.

Insurance companies are often a self-serving marzipan layer that gums up that process. Insurers are in business purely to make a profit, and one of the main ways they do this is by keeping claims to a minimum - and they're very good at it. Time is on their side and they can, legally, drag a claim out for month after month with no inconvenience to themselves. You'd be surprised how many claimants give up and walk away - which is money in the bank for the insurers and reinforces their behaviour.

At the end of the day, however, your claim is not against the other party's insurance company, it's against the other party and, provided you can establish they're at fault, deal with them directly if necessary and leave them to squeal like ravished nuns when their own insurer plays the dick-dance game. If the other party refuses to deal with you or ignores your letters, get a solicitor to write to them on your behalf. It's not expensive, and that way, the unhelpful insurance company gets grief from it's own panicking customer as well, and you put THEM under pressure. If you have to spend money in reasonably pursuing your claim, you are entitled to add that to the final bill. Make sure the other party knows this, that his insurers know this - and that they know YOU know this.

If the other party's insurer refuses or otherwise fails to return you to a situation where you are not out of pocket (and you can prove it) then you can sue the third party for the remainder. Do it. Provided you can prove your losses, showing such things as travel costs incurred or hire car receipts (you can't claim knock-on losses except in exceptional circumstances) you will almost certainly win (the small claims system straightforward and easy to understand). If the other party then won't/can't doesn't pay, send in a bailiff. All this stuff is open to you if you can be bothered to make it work in your case. If you can politely show the insurance company that you know this stuff, they tend to be much less inclined to mess around with you and they move off to find an easier victim that'll cost less to fob off.

Finally, never assume your own insurer will fight your case for you with the other side. You are simply a number on a spreadsheet and a potential loss, to be mitigated as quickly and legally as possible. For that reason, you should manage your claim yourself if at all possible. This can be fun if you like winding annoying companies up and lets YOU choose the best course of action, not some bean counter in an office in Mumbai.

Bear in mind too, that a lot of home insurance policies have legal cover built-in. This can actually work rather well for you, and I've known several cases where this approach has yielded excellent results when the victim has unleashed his own legal hounds. Most satisfying.

Unfortunately, all this stuff can take time but, if you persevere, mitigate your costs to a 'reasonable' level and can show you have a case, you will eventually win. I've done this, it works and it makes you feel a lot better when your pride and joy gets bent by someone with their IQ in their Y-fronts and their attention on their stereo when they hit you up the gonglepooch at 30mph ........... :twisted: