GTI at classic car sales

[Matt H]

^^^^ ^^^^

Mark

What he said

You're talking to someone who is looking at running an Alfa 156 2.5 V6 as an everyday car Cars are not just a conveyance to some of us... They are my life, and I won't be bullied off the road by high fuel prices. I'd rather drive something interesting half as far, than drive something boring all the time. Fuel prices are staring to hurt, true, so now I car share half of the time. Everyone has different circumstances, I'm just having as much fun while I still can. You never know when it all might end.

Diesel BXs are great, I know I'd consider a nice one if I had to do more miles, but to say that an 8v GTI in good condition is not worth £895 because it is worse on fuel than a TD is misguided.

There are also a hell of a lot of BX appreciators who aren't in this club. I say the online BX community probably represents about 10% of everyone who would consider buying or owning one. We are the ring of hardcore nutters

[Des Smith]

I didn't know these "wars" already existed on this site, gulp

Well, maybe not wars, more a frank exchange of views. Have a look at this for instance:

http://www.bxclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic ... ht=#167269

I think the argument over the relative merits of petrol v diesel will see-saw back and forth until the last BX disappears from our roads (and I freely admit thats likely to be a diesel model)

Back to the topic, this GTi's price seems about right to me. If I was in the market for a car with this mileage and spec I would be interested, particularly if there's a bit of wriggle room in the asking price. The point's been made about a car being worth whatever the buyer's prepared to pay for it on the day and that will vary from person to person. A petrolhead won't value a good example of a TXD as highly as a diesel afficionado and vice-versa - it stands to reason.

[BX Meteor]

I think the argument over the relative merits of petrol v diesel will see-saw back and forth until the last BX disappears from our roads (and I freely admit thats likely to be a diesel model)

Back to the topic, this GTi's price seems about right to me. If I was in the market for a car with this mileage and spec I would be interested, particularly if there's a bit of wriggle room in the asking price. The point's been made about a car being worth whatever the buyer's prepared to pay for it on the day and that will vary from person to person. A petrolhead won't value a good example of a TXD as highly as a diesel afficionado and vice-versa - it stands to reason.

The only guide to the used car market IMO is auctions, because there is no other way to know the true market price of a used car.

Anyone paying more than £500 for any petrol BX in the autumn in thiis economic climate has more money than sense.

I have had Ami's, Dyane's, and DS's. I have always had a BX since 1989, but if I were to buy one now I would not waste my money on a petrol version. For example, if there had been a diesel version of a DS, then like for like condition, a diesel version of a DS would fetch far more than a petrol version.

[bxzx16v]

If it's a nice thing I'm pretty sure it's worth that price , not for me though , much prefer the 16v over the 8v if I had a choice . Going by how rare nice 16v's are nowadays I don't

Mark

[Des Smith]

Anyone paying more than £500 for any petrol BX in the autumn in thiis economic climate has more money than sense.

OK, I have more money than sense! I still wouldn't want a diesel, though. The normally aspirated ones are slow and the turbos are only as fast as the petrol ones. You pay more for diesel than unleaded, which more or less knocks out the economy benefits. My BX14 turns in 45mpg and most critically costs £130 a year to tax and bugger all to insure. If I want an economical BX, it's what I would choose and I would pay what I thought it was worth.

I already have a fast, uneconomical (in town) V6 and I love driving it. I also love bimbling about in my BX for the same reason as the rest of us do. However if I could only afford to have one car, I might be very tempted to buy a GTi like this one here. I'm sure someone will.

[BX Meteor]

Fair enough, can't dispute anything there.

[anaconda]

Central locking remote button thingy!

Surely thats a CLRBT!

Thats the one! I have a CLRBT on my TZD that only works well if you point it forwards through the O/S rear passenger window, not throught the rear screen & not through the drivers window or the windscreen which are nearer to the reciever???????

Love this! So in reality the time saving/convenience gizmo creates more bother than the thing its supposed to replace...i.e putting the key in the lock! God bless Citroen.

[Defender110]

Love this! So in reality the time saving/convenience gizmo creates more bother than the thing its supposed to replace...i.e putting the key in the lock! God bless Citroën.

Well yes that's exactly how it used to be; will the key or the PLIP be the quickest easiest option. It used to drive me daft every time I used the TZD until I discovered the back window trick, I could never make my mind up; plip key, plip key, key plip?????

[scooters]

The 8V Gti is a bloody good car - very different from the 16V - more of a Grand Tourer than a hooligan. The power is very well matched, the engines are a great deal easier to work on than the 16V and they are superb long distance, powerful cars with no turbo lag.

I have owned in my time 2 BX17TGDs, an uber rare BX19TZD (started life as a 17TZD) , an 8V Gti and a 16V. I've just bought Marks 16 Meteor.

Diesel vs petrol - well, folk buy cars for different reasons - whilst a 17DZD would be great for me the insurance is more expensive, they tend to go for a bit more dosh and although I know the components of the XUD engine well, when things go wrong with them they are usually a bit more to fix than the petrol equivalents - I wanted a 1.6 petrol because it was a/cheaper to insure b/has a carb and c/is a lot easier for me to work on - lastly because they are getting pretty rare now.

Modern petrol cars being phased out? Never happen IMHO - modern diesels are horrifically complicated - far more so than the XUD TD lump and depend on several dozen sensors being in sync - these electronics all suffer as cars get older - and the parts become very expensive to replace. You have all sorts of potions to add to them and dealers make a packet out of the service costs. The recent hoohah about providing service software to independents is because of the complexity of the modern diesel.

In addition to this, modern petrol cars are also pretty efficiant - my mother's 1.6 picasso returns 45+MPG on a run and I have had it over 55mpg. Modern diesels are also unsuitable for regular short journey/town use and can quickly eat injectors if used in such a way.

The majority of cars coming out of Japan continue to be petrol based and these cars are typically kept simple because they are marketed into parts of the world where they dn't have dealer networks. If I were going to buy a new car (unlikely) I would by a Japanese car because I can service it myself. I would not buy a C5.

[Defender110]

Diesel vs petrol -
Modern petrol cars being phased out? Never happen IMHO - modern diesels are horrifically complicated - far more so than the XUD TD lump and depend on several dozen sensors being in sync - these electronics all suffer as cars get older - and the parts become very expensive to replace. You have all sorts of potions to add to them and dealers make a packet out of the service costs. The recent hoohah about providing service software to independents is because of the complexity of the modern diesel.

All this applies to modern petrol engines too to get them Euro 5 compliant?

[BX Meteor]

I went to Halfords to get my A/C refilled, said it was a Honda Accord. Was asked if it was petrol or diesel, didn't see the relevance but said it was petrol. He said "good job it's not a diesel, we have a CRV diesel in for repair, came here in get home mode. We quickly found the faulty sensor, but when we looked, the bracket was cracked, but we cannot get to the bracket without taking the engine out. We called the owner and said it would take 16 hours to fix it and they said go ahead". I think Halfords charge £80/hr which is a lot of money to fix a problem on a Honda diesel.

However, something like this can happen to any modern car. Obviously modern cars are more complex than older cars, but surely new cars of today are statistically more reliable than new cars in preceeding decades, and things like JD Power surveys will have contributed to that improving statistic.

My Honda is now 7 years old, and I often drive in the early hours of the morning, thrashing it using the accelerator pedal like an on/off switch. It's been ultra reliable for the 6 years I have had it and always driven it that way. But, I recently took the front and rear bumbers off and was surprised to see the paint coming away round some of the fixture holes, bubbling along some of the thin metal work on the chassis, and use of cheap rusting set-screws here and there. So although reliable, I am surprised at Honda's cheapness in unseen detail.

Regarding diesels, even Top Gear have acknowledged that diesels can now be better than petrols, and have done several items with high performance diesels. The car I myself would like to try is the BMW 123d, if I could afford it I would buy one

[Tim Leech]

ail.

Regarding diesels, even Top Gear have acknowledged that diesels can now be better than petrols, and have done several items with high performance diesels. The car I myself would like to try is the BMW 123d, if I could afford it I would buy one

Motor diesels have come ALONG way, I drive a new Golf 2.0 Common Rail Diesel, which does 50-60MPG, 0-60 in under 9 seconds and is quieter and smootherthan most petrols, mind you it cost £23,000 and would I own one after 10 years and 19 years and 120000 miles like my TZD? probably not.

Oh and £30 a year road tax, but when I drive for "fun" I drive a BX.

[Defender110]

would I own one after 10 years and 19 years and 120000 miles like my TZD? probably not.

Oh and £30 a year road tax

This is the big question, how long will a car bought today last. We all know they won't be rotting in the scrap yards with modern build quality but when our old cars break down we don't mind paying the relatively small amount required to fix them but when one of todays cars break down it can costs thousands of pounds to repair with phone no.s for parts prices, how may owners will be willing to spend vast amonts to repair these cars when they get older. Are cars going to become like everything else in this throw away society; if it breaks it's more economical to buy a new one than have it repaired?

[BX Meteor]

I drive a new Golf 2.0 Common Rail Diesel, which does 50-60MPG, 0-60 in under 9 seconds and is quieter and smoother than most petrols,

Nice, often I wish I had bought a German car rather than Japanese

would I own one after 10 years and 19 years and 120000 miles like my TZD? probably not.

Oh and £30 a year road tax

This is the big question, how long will a car bought today last.

Yes, my Honda Accord is 7 years old, but I thnk that when it is 17 years old it could be too difficult to maintain.

My BX was made 19 yeara ago (from the orga number) and is still maintainable. But I do not now tax/insure it for a whoe year (careful wording there)

[Paul296]

Well when everything goes tits up and our raped and pillaged planet has yielded it's last sip of liquid fossil fuel - just think how easy it will be to make a BX out of cardboard boxes! Those hi tec curvy swervy German smug-mobiles won't be laughing then!? ( as I peddle past them on the hard shoulder - so long Fritz!)