16v starter motor

[Matt H]

I've been having a few intermittent starting issues as of late, with the starter motor occasionally failing to engage... It's been getting much worse in the last couple of weeks, and seems to completely die when the car is warm, either after a run or sat in the sun.

After a bit of Googleing and talking the symptoms over with some fairly knowledgeable people, I'm fairly certain it's a failing starter motor, but also accept that it could well be a wiring issue...

My question is, what's the best way of changing the starter motor on a 16v? I can't even see it from above, so I'm guessing it would be easier to get at it from below, or possibly whip (I use the term lightly ) the inlet manifold off?

[mat_fenwick]

I assume it's on a BX? Just that the 205 inlet manifold is held on by what appears to be special round allen bolts - but the starter was new on that anyway. I dislike working on my back, so would go for removing the inlet manifold if possible. (On the 205 I removed the radiator and bumper).

[Matt H]

Yeah, the BX. I've just tried to start it now, and it's completely dead, so the temperature is just incidental. The 205 did exhibit similar symptoms, but that was just a slightly dodgy battery terminal.

[mat_fenwick]

You could check all the thick cables to engine/starter for hot connections; also try giving the start a tap to see whether it frees off. Obviously not a long term fix but could help pinpoint the problem. Not sure if you can actually get to it from below due to the slant of the engine?

[Kitch]

Either inlet manifold or radiator out, whichever you find easiest. You can do it without removing either, but it's a right PITA. I'd never do it again - for the extra few minutes it takes to remove a rad and refit it then it's not worth stressing over.

[Matt H]

Well I have inlet manifold gaskets... So assuming I can get it off, I'll go that route. Will give myself plenty of time to inspect/tidy all of the wiring too. Taking out the rad would be a shame as it's just had fresh coolant

[Mike E (uk)]

No contest, take the rad out. You can catch 90% of the coolent and reuse it.
Easy job and gives best access.

You may be lucky and find it is just a poor connection on the starter solonoid. I had that once.

I wired my solonoid through a relay to remove the high current path through the key switch and wiring. This should extend the keyswitch life and may give longer life to the solonoid too.

[Matt H]

I wired my solonoid through a relay to remove the high current path through the key switch and wiring. This should extend the keyswitch life and may give longer life to the solonoid too.

Interesting, I've heard of this being done, and thought it sounded like a good idea... Anything to make it that little bit more reliable

[mat_fenwick]

I've wondered about this, but assumed that other ignition switched circuits (blower motor(s), HRW, wipers etc) would be a bigger load on the switch. But I don't know whether the ignition switch controls the relay coil circuit (logically it would do!) or the main current path.

[Vanny]

inlet manifold for me every time, 4 bolts, 2 nuts.

That said, if you fit a compact replacement (from a ZX, Xantia, 306 etc) then you can swap them in situ.

Heat will make a sticky solenoid worse, give the solenoid (cylinder on top of the starter) a good whack with a piece of wood to get it going, but this wont last for ever.

Also, for a good 6 months on the diesel i used to have to jump start the car from its self, jump lead between the starter and the battery negative worked wonders, even if it did look a bit odd.

[Matt H]

Well, I've unbolted the manifold, and it seems well and truly welded on... Is there a method to getting it off?

I've got until next Wednesday to sort it, so loads of time

[Vanny]

Is there a method to getting it off?

Find the bolt you've missed

I suspect its sticking on the locator pin and or the paper gasket. Wiggle it!

I assume the few accessories have been removed? coil, nut for the oil filler etc

[Matt H]

Yep, everything is off... I think. I actually have another manifold I've been meaning to fit, but never got round to it. Tempted to get the injectors cleaned too, but doubt I'd get them back in time. But then again I have two other immobile cars with the same injectors

To be honest, it started pissing it down, and was going dark! Will have another go tonight.

[Vanny]

Any luck? i find swearing in french helps!

[Matt H]

Didn't get chance (Too busy looking at a Clio V6 - didn't buy it in the end!), although did locate the bracket under the throttle body that I forgot to unbolt

Hopefully it should come off a bit easier once I've removed it...