Battery dead, relay at fault?

[Wooscary]

Spent an interesting evening carrying a car battery home on the bus to charge last night.

Got in car, battery very dead. But without key in ignition there was a horrible whining noise from passenger footwell,
investigated and it was the 4th(?) from the left relay (black, between the big blue one and a green) going wild! I could
feel it vibrating and once removed the sound stopped.

Still, not enough power to bump it, two in the morning so no one around for a jump (and it was so dead we'd have been there
all night).

So I guess I'm asking what is this relay, why has it inflicted itself on me, and can I get another?

Here are a couple of pictures.


578649_10151885542583475_1875945461_n by Wooscary, on Flickr
Well out of date!


557040_10151885542948475_985817444_n by Wooscary, on Flickr
Cartier!

I'm going back with hopefully a charged battery this evening (the car is at my brother's).

Thank you.

[mat_fenwick]

Ah, Facebook makes more sense now! It's the indicator flasher unit, but why it's doing that is a mystery! It may not be that itself that's at fault, but a wiring issue elsewhere; i.e. a small current passing that's not enough to hold it on for long enough for the bulbs to light.

Do you have a multimeter? If not you could try disconnecting the hazard switch with the relay back in and see whether it stops. The indicator switch is ignition controlled so less likely to affect things.

[Wooscary]

Ah yeah, I often upload to Facebook from my phone if the cable can't be found.

Ok, well I'll try starting without any indicators and hopefully it'll spring in to life.

I do have a multimeter somewhere, but will pull the hazard switch and see what
happens. Then a nice bit of wire tracing I guess.

Cheers for the thoughts Mat, I appreciate it.

[citronut]

Spent an interesting evening carrying a car battery home on the bus to charge last night.


Still, not enough power to bump it, two in the morning so no one around for a jump (and it was so dead we'd have been there
all night).

Thank you.

and you have buses running at two in the morning

i hope you wasnt thinking of bump starting a diesel , as you can shatter the clutch

also you do know your indicators wont function with the hazard switch remaved


regards malcolm

[Dollywobbler]

Not this 'clutch shatter' business again. I've never heard of it happening. Don't jerk the clutch up and it should be alright. Slip it as you normally would, second gear. Both mine have been bumped (more than once) and nowt has shattered.

[Wooscary]

Buses all night! Busiest bus route in Europe, didn't make the battery any lighter to carry though.

Yep, I've had the indicator issue before when one of the springs from the hazards switch
decided to fire itself off somewhere.

I've heard this bumping thing, but before I knew about it I'd been bumping diesels for ages without an
issue. Definitely willing to listen to the warning, but it hasn't been a problem for me.

Cheers.

Now just wishing I knew more people with cars, the return trip with the battery is going to be less fun. Don't fancy cycling with it. Ha ha.

[Dollywobbler]

I don't deny that the higher compression of diesel engines puts more strain on stuff - I bear that in mind and have thankfully avoided a problem. Good luck with battery transportation!

[Defender110]

Not this 'clutch shatter' business again. I've never heard of it happening. Don't jerk the clutch up and it should be alright. Slip it as you normally would, second gear. Both mine have been bumped (more than once) and nowt has shattered.

/\ As that! bumped literally hundreds with no issues what so ever, in fact diesels are easier to bump.

[Wooscary]

Sat at my brother's in the rain trying to get some charge in to the battery. Looks like it didn't feel like charging out of the car over night. Bugger! It's so dead that there is no chance of using the boost on the charger yet.

[Dollywobbler]

I have to say, at times like this, one of those jump packs is just the job, though even one of those might struggle with an entirely flat battery. They do have a nice carry handle though, and people don't look at you quite as oddly if you're walking around with one!

[Wooscary]

Now have battery inside trying to charge it out of the car, but for some reason the charger doesn't seem to be doing anything. All the lights were coming on and clearly doing something while the battery was hooked up to the car, but unhooked the charger seems pretty lifeless, although a quick touch of the + and - terminals proves it is on etc.

Can anyone think why this might not be working? I've never used this charger for anything but the boost function and it's always worked on moderately dead batteries. Hmm.

Cheers.

[mat_fenwick]

From what you say it could be that the battery just isn't holding a charge, rather than the charger not giving an output. Running a battery completely flat certainly isn't good for it but I've never known it completely kill a battery straight away!

Is bump/jump starting an option? If it charges OK from the alternator that would prove the charger is at fault, if not then it condemns the battery.

Time to dig out the multimeter

[Wooscary]

Yeah I'm perfectly willing to accept the battery could be at fault, but it not showing any previous signs of weakness seems strange.

Bump is not longer possible as it has sunk so much that the exhaust is resting on the camber of the road!
Jump is going to be the order of the day tomorrow. Why do I know so few people with cars?

As an aside, when this kind of thing happens, the obvious task is the search the internet for everything. Lots of "you should top
your battery up" stuff, I checked in the little things on top of the battery and there is no visible liquid at all. Never having topped up a
battery, is this needed?


Cheers.

[mat_fenwick]

I agree it's strange, but possible. Especially given that you seem to be low on electrolyte in the battery - can you see any metal plates inside the battery? Most if not all modern batteries are designed to capture any electrolyte that evaporates, so don't tend to need any topping up. It may be older advice you are reading about regularly topping up, and the fact you can't see any liquid may just be that you are looking at the arrangement for capturing anything that's evaporated.

If you can see the plates they need to be just covered. If they are not that will affect the capacity although if only a little low wouldn't expect a significant problem. Ideally you'd go out and buy some distilled water to top it up, but you may be sick of buses by now....

If you have a dehumidifier the water collected by that can be used, or the ice that collects in the freezer. Distilled water is purified by boiling, so anything that collects water from humidity in the air is effectively distilled water. But first establish whether it needs topping up.

[Way2go]

Yeah I'm perfectly willing to accept the battery could be at fault, but it not showing any previous signs of weakness seems strange.

Bump is not longer possible as it has sunk so much that the exhaust is resting on the camber of the road!
Jump is going to be the order of the day tomorrow. Why do I know so few people with cars?

As an aside, when this kind of thing happens, the obvious task is the search the internet for everything. Lots of "you should top
your battery up" stuff, I checked in the little things on top of the battery and there is no visible liquid at all. Never having topped up a
battery, is this needed?


Cheers.

If the battery is taken into "deep discharge" it can be impossible to resurrect it. It sounds like you had taken it into such a state with the whine from the flasher relay - it could have been that you accidentally switched the hazards on thus draining the battery without realising it.

I had this happen with a car radio on an Audi once when the car was unused for a while. Car batteries are not like domestic rechargeables, they are not designed to be drained much below 12v.