Hello from far side of the world :)

[Debelix]

Well, not so far actually

Hi everyone, i'm from Bulgaria and I have owned a Citroen BX for quite a while now. The problem is that I have some trouble with it and currently i'm running out of ideas how I can fix them. The car is a '89 Citroen BX TRD with 1,9 asthmatic diesel - that is, er, non aspirated at any way It has a PAS and aircon.

By the way, you've got quite a community here, I've read a lot in a "BX Technical" section and found it very helpful. Ever since I got my BX I loved the car and the way it feels when I drive it, so... well, basically I'm in love

Anyway, I currently have two problems - the first is with the increadibly fast tick times - I've tried a lot of things to fix it by none of them works by now. Tick times on my BX is about 2-3 secs and sometimes when the engine is idling it is just an endless "HSSSS"-ing sound. If I turn the steering wheel even at 1cm in any direction the HSS-ing stops and everything gets quiet. Ever since I've got the car the tick times and the HSSS-ing was always there. So, what I did so far is the following:

- One year ago (when I bought the car) I checked the central sphere - it was OK, maybe a little less pressure in it, so it was refilled but nothing changed

- The rear of the car was dropping very fast when it is stopped so I changed the stop valve (doseur?) with a known good one from Xantia '98 - it fits perfectly and now the car stays up for about 3-4 hours then "goes to bed" equally in both ends

- After buying the car I cleaned the system with "Hydraurincage" and the filters in the LHM container; I did the cleaning of filters once again few weeks ago, currently the LHM is fresh and clean

- The PAS is smooth all over its way around in left or right without any glitches, but I decided to change the FDV because mine had a very minor leak - anyway, I've got a good and clean FDV from a '95 Xantia, but the fast ticking and HSSS-ing did not changed

- Checked again the central and suspension spheres in about a month ago - all of them was OK; when I sit on the back of the car while engine stopped it sinks and after a while it goes up - I think that means that central sphere is OK

- when the engine is idling I pulled out all of the small hoses going into the LHM reservoir to check if there is some internal leaking - well, nope, none of them was leaking, only a minor drop of LHM by... let's say about 5-7 seconds

Currently I'm suspecting the PR and I am planning to do the "ball bearing reassembling", but I doubt that it will help the fast ticking... If nothing change after that I will try using another PR and see if it changes anything - if that did not work, well, I'm out of ideas

By the way the hidraulic pump is also OK - when I start the car in the morning the "STOP" lamp and the lamp showing low pressure in the system stays only for while - let's say about 7-9 seconds, and then the car starts rising. Also the front suspension spheres are from a CX instead of standard BX ones - they are at 85 atm. pressure and volume of about 500 ml if I'm not wrong.

The second problem is with my (very!) low MPG - last time I "feeded" the car I put in it half a tank of diesel and got to go only 250 km (maybe about 150 miles?) - that's terrible?! Is it possible that this bad MPG is due to problems with fuel injectors? I'm thinking of checking the spreaders (I don't know the correct name of that part from injector in english - it's the thing that makes the fuel mist in the chamber) because they may be in bad shape. Any other ideas will be greatly appreciated

Sorry for the long posting, but I tried to be as comprehensive as I can

By the way, excuse me for my bad english - I haven't use it for a while and it's quite rusty...

[mnde]

Bad English? I thought quite the opposite actually!

Welcome!

My BX also tends to hiss a lot, and it will stop temporarily if I turn the steering wheel slightly, or press the accelerator pedal. The centre sphere was changed earlier this year. I have not tried the "ball bearing reassembling" technique but others will tell you it has worked well for them, no doubt - and also about servicing injectors (my car is petrol!)

Regards,

Mark.

[mat_fenwick]

Don't worry about your English - it's a lot better than my Bulgarian! I'm sure we've seen posts from people for whom English is their first language that made a lot less sense.

I'm not sure about your hydraulic issues, but I had have success in cleaning the injectors by half filling the fuel filter with neat injector cleaner and then re-connecting the fuel lines. It will be smoky and difficult to start so you need a strong battery, but after this treatment on a couple of engines performance was noticeably improved. Hopefully someone can comment on whether this is a risky process to carry out or not...

[Debelix]

Thanks guys

I take it from the words of Mark that my BX is not the only one with the hissing problem - I think that this is a quite frequently seen problem on a models with PAS... For now I will try the ball reseating trick and I'll write here if there is any effect. In our bulgarian forum there was a topic about the fact that sometimes the spring controlling the pressure in the PR valve is getting "tired" and looses its strenght. Because the spring controls the limits of pressure when hidraulic pump cut in and out, if that happens the pump start to turn on more often, resulting in fast tick times. The "medicine" to this problem is thought to be placing a small disc (or number of them) under the spring, so that way it will return her (is it right to say "her" for spring?) to normal condition. The only problem is that this theory was never tested and proven, and also that one may need special tools to examine and achieve the right pressure levels after adding the disks

By the way I forgot to tell you that except all of the things that I tried I also bleed the brake system, expecting that the fluid from there will be quite nasty, but surprisingly it wasn't - it was clean and almost translucent LHM!

The idea of cleaning the injectors is very nice, and maybe I will try it - the thing is, that as far as I know the spread caps of the fuel injectors in diesel systems have a limited lifespan - maybe about 50-70 000 kms, because the high pressure fuel running through them erases their nozzles. I don't know if the former driver of my BX did change them at any moment of the car usage, so that's why I thought they might be the problem at first place.

I'd love to hear (well, read ) more ideas about both problems, and if I could I'd very much like to repay you in beer, but I'm afraid I am quite far away

[ken newbold]

Hello and welcome to the club.

Your BX sounds to have an XM problem, most XM's including mine, hisssss when stood until you turn the steering wheel, they tell me it's the Flow Distribution Valve (FDV) that's allowing pressure to pass by. My XM has been doing it for 3 years now.

You may find these threads interesting

http://bxclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php ... sc&start=0
http://bxclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php ... sc&start=0

sorry but most of the pictures have been removed from the second thread, but you will be used to seeing them anyway.

[Debelix]

Hello Ken.

It seems that the hissing problem is quite often observed, but the thing is that it's not the hissing that bothers me - it's the rapid tick times. So far I thought that the hissing and fast ticking are related in some way, but I'm starting to think that they are not. Anyway - I don't think that the hissing problem is due to the problems in FDV - I changed mine with newer taken from Xantia. Before replacing it I opened it for cleaning and to refurbish the rubber parts in it and I found that it was in fairly good condition - a-a-almost like new (The LHM that leaked from the "new" FDV was bright green and clean). So... I think the hissing probably is due to problems in PR, or maybe some kind of internal leak in PAS.

I take it from your posts that you did (I hope!) like coming to Bulgaria. Citroens are quite often met here, mainly because of their low price and relatively cheap spare parts - currently there's a LOT of Xantias around here, but personally I don't like them, because they're just NOT as real Citroen as BX or XM. Prior to buying my BX I was turning my head after every BX on the streets... and now, after getting it, I'm still doing it I guess I just want another one

Anyway, if by any chance you did come again to Bulgaria and especially Sofia, I'd love to meet you and introduce you to our Citroen club meetings

By the way, that's my BX (which I named Bazill )

[ken newbold]

I did indeed enjoy coming to Bulgaria. I've not been back this year yet, but Christmas is still a possibility.

Have you checked the ball in the PR is seated correctly? and have you tried a new accumulator sphere?
If so the only other thing I can think of would be to disconnect the LHM return pipes at the reservoir one at a time and see which one is returning the most fluid, this may help you find out what component is leaking the most.

[Debelix]

It will be great if you could come here around Christmas time

Checking and reseating the ball in PR is planned as next step for fixing the fast ticking, maybe next week because right now I don't have time to bother with the car

The accumulator sphere was checked some weeks ago - for 1 year it didn't dropped any pressure and doing the "sit-on-the-back-while-engine-stopped" test showed that the sphere is OK because the car rises after a while. Also, I had the car parked at a slope near home for a couple of days, and I didn't use it. When I get in and released the handbrake the car (naturally ) started to slide but stopped when I pressed the brake pedal - and that happened without ever starting the engine, which takes me to the idea that accumulator sphere works fine.

I also checked the LHM return pipes going to the LHM tank and none of them had any noticeable leak, which in theory means that the car don't have any major internal leaks. I think that's true, because internal leak so badly that makes the hidraulic pump cut in at every 2-3 secons would definitely show some other indications on car's condition - and there aren't any, except the damned uber-fast ticking!

[DLM]

Welcome to BXclub from me too, Debelix. While I've never been to Bulgaria, a friend whose BX I repair has rural property about 50km inland from Varna and visits a couple of times every year. I also met a Bulgarian expatriot in France recently and had a happy half-hour playing and looking at an old Bulgarian piano, which she imported to France with various items of furniture from her mother's and father's house.

I'm interested to hear there are still BXs with enthusiastic owners in Bulgaria - from what I have heard about the country they sound like sensible cars to run there as they can still be repaired and maintained fairly cheaply, unlike more modern vehicles.

Ken's advice about checking the return pipes at the reservoir sounds very sensible and would be my next move too.

At one time there was a very good illustrated description of the return pipe layout on a Japanese BX DIY site. Though this site is no longer online, it was available through a net archiving service the last time I checked. Perhaps someone else could provide the link to it, as I don't have it bookmarked.

There is also a good diagram showing the different functions of the return pipes at the reservoir here: http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/sus ... ension.php

Good luck!

[ellevie]

At one time there was a very good illustrated description of the return pipe layout on a Japanese BX DIY site. Though this site is no longer online, it was available through a net archiving service the last time I checked. Perhaps someone else could provide the link to it, as I don't have it bookmarked.

That wonderful Japanese site and description is still online at,
http://www.mars.dti.ne.jp/~ynar/bxorg_a ... /m15e.html

[Debelix]

It's time for minor update

For now I've decided to try and change the pressure regulator, because it's either him that's causing the fast tick times, or it's definitely the PAS. I managed to get one proven good PR for about... well almost 8 quids, which is quite a bargain actually

I checked all return pipes and none of them has major flow, except for the one with the "Operational Return", which is normal because the HP Pump is coupled all the time with the engine, so it's pumping LHM to it. The thing is that in this pipe also goes PAS operational return, so it's not clear if PAS is leaking... Anyway, it will all come clear when I change the PR, so I'll see

[ken newbold]

Now I come to think of it, my second BX a 19RD estate had this same problem when I got it.

Fitted a new PR and that sorted it.

[kevlights]

hope you are on the way to fixing your problem this may help if you have not seen it yet ; FAST TICKING OVER
THe main task of the main accumulator (a sphere in front of the engine, similar to the other four; look down between the engine and the radiator) is to maintain the normal pressure in the system. The hydraulic fluid is drawn from the reservoir by a pump operating continuously. The accumulator sphere maintains the pressure for some time but it drops slowly as you use the brakes or the power steering. Once it drops below a minimum level, the pressure regulator (a valve the accumulator sphere is mounted on) opens and lets some fluid enter the accumulator, then closes again as soon as the necessary pressure is restored. The TICKING sound comes from the operation of this pressure regulator. As this main sphere becomes old, its ability to retain the pressure reduces and the pressure regulator must open more and more frequently to restore the lost pressure, up to a point when it is nearly always functioning (every 1-2 seconds). Apart from the bothering noise, this puts a heavy strain on the hydraulic pump itself.

If the residual pressure in the accumulator is not yet below a minimum level, it can be refilled, otherwise you have to replace it with a new or reconditioned unit.

But even if the main accumulator is healthy, the system might TICK frequently. The cut-in and cut-out pressure of the pressure regulator might be out of tune. Check if a lot of fluid is coming from any of the return pipes on top of the reservoir, especially the thick one from the regulator—this would point to a faulty regulator. Any other failure allowing the fluid to escape from the accumulator and leak back into the LHM reservoir also makes the hydraulics TICK fast.

To locate the problem spot more precisely, jack up the car on safety stands and with the engine idling, remove each of the four small diameter return hoses, one at a time, from the reservoir. Have a clean jar and rags ready for LHM spillage. Hose #1 is the one towards the front of the car, #2 comes next, #3 is the right angled hose (do not remove the hose itself, there is a little ball inside you would lose, remove the plastic coupling element instead), and #4 is the last one (the remaining two are the high pressure lines, don't remove them!). Note which of them are returning LHM fluid.

Return hoses Reason
#1 front and rear cylinders
#1 but not #3 rear cylinders
both #1 and #3 one or both front cylinders
#2 safety valve, front/rear height correctors, power steering cylinder
(the safety valve can be tested by removing the hose at the valve itself)
#3 front cylinders ventilation
#4 brake valve (plus operational return, with brake pedal pressed and released)

The ticking interval should finally return to about one minute (or more) between ticks (engine idling, nobody sitting in the car). However, older cars quite commonly have an increased ticking frequency (5 to 10 seconds between ticks). Although this does signal that some parts of the system are worn, the car may perform well for quite a long time, at most with minor repairs over time.


http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/sus ... ension.php

[Pogo]

Hi, from the last reply.

My car has what sounds like a hiss of a valve opening and closing, which I assume is the tick and appears to come from the pump at the front of the engine where the accumulator is.

I have replaced the accumulator sphere this morning.
I did have a 'click' every 5-6 seconds, with the new sphere it now seems to have gone down to about 3 seconds.
I followed the instructions on the forum.

My next thoughts are to change the LHM and at the same time check the low pressure return pipes to the tank as per above.
So if one is sending lots of fluid back I assume this means something has an internal leak.

Are new pressure regulators available, as this seems a likely fault and how difficult is it to change?

Sorry, bit confused, any advice appreciated.

James BX GTI 8v 1990

[MULLEY]

Have you tried tapping the ball bearing back into place, i believe there are some instructions somewhere on how to do this, it may have become unseated when you changed the accumulator. Try that 1st before spending lots of unecessary money.