C5 Tales from the Electronic Side

[MULLEY]

I wasn't wanting cruise to save fuel, just my right foot having to adjust the throttle all the time, its a lot more of a relaxing drive if you can relax your feet on a journey. I'm surprised how often i use it tbh in the mini, just wish that engine & gearbox was in the C5, its so powerful & fun to drive in comparison to the C5, which on paper is only about 3bhp down, but it feels lethargic in comparison.

[electrokid]

IIRC the C5 weighs around 1800 Kg - what's the weight of the mini ?

[MULLEY]

The figures are:

C5 Estate - 1438 kg, Torque = 249 Nm 184 lb-ft, 0-60 mph = 11.2 secs, Top Speed = 116 mph

Mini Cooper D Clubman (2011) = weight (DIN/EU) 1,185 / 1,260 kg 270 Nm, 0-60 mph = 10.2 secs, Top Speed = 122 mph

So you're talking a couple of hundred kg difference, but its the way they accelerate which is so different, the mini feels so much more alive & the throttle response is miles better.

[electrokid]

Interesting figures Matthew - thanks. I find it interesting that the greater torque plus the lower weight of the mini only results in a one second difference in the nominal 0-60 I just get the feeling that perhaps it should be more. I'd guess that the torque / weight difference is largely responsible for the 'more alive' feel of the mini.

I used to have a regular journey of about 3 miles from my old house to my late father's house while I was doing it up. I had 2 cars at my disposal - my late father's Vauxhall Astra auto (1.4 litre 70bhp engine) and my Granada estate (2.8 litre 156bhp engine). Invariably at the start of the journey I'd light up a ciggie - I used to push the Vauxhall fairly hard but I would drive the Granada 'normally'. The Vauxhall was slower by quite a margin - by the time I arrived I would have finished the ciggie ! In the Ford I'd have at least an inch of smoking 'pleasure' still to go.

The Vauxhall reminded me of The Goodies' solicitors - 'Terribly, Terribly, Boring and Dull' - it performed everything asked of it in a very reasonable fashion but no amount of throttle would ever make it exiting.

The Ford however was impeccably capable and always a pleasure to drive whether in 'limousine mode' or when ragged (as long as one had come to terms with the way that F/R brake balance worked).

So - perhaps a strange question and maybe even the wrong way of putting it - do you think the C5 could be described as sophisticated / refined or perhaps slow / boring ?

I have a theory - backed up by some experiences - that some cars can feel a bit 'flighty' when the reality is that they are perhaps just not handling as well; others may feel 'underwhelming' in corners where the suspension is actually doing an excellent job. I'm sure the mini handles very well but how different is the C5 ?

[MULLEY]

Some interesting observations, they are like chalk & cheese in comparison for driving, the mini feels like a sportscar after jumping out of the C5.
Ironically i thought the mini was a very refined car (compared to my old TXD), however, on the motorway the C5 is actually the quieter car?? Figure that one out, so very little progress made by BMW in the 10 year gap between cars. The 0-60 time does feel odd, however, the ingear acceleration in the mini is miles better, i can overtake cars quite easily in that, whereas in the C5 it does take longer & i find myself sometimes not overtaking someone, whereas in the mini i would have. Perhapes the figures at the wheel are more different than the horsepower ratings suggest? The mini is much better on fuel, its got stop/start as well. I do know the mini is a twin scroll turbocharger, perhapes this provides the extra acceleration over the C5?

The mini is deffo more fun to drive, it feels more alive with stiffer suspension, steering, gearbox & does accelerate quicker & at lower revs as well. I guess you could say the C5 is more boring to drive, but it is a much bigger & heavier car & with the suspension, more of a cruiser than an a-b machine, however, it does handle quite well & i've driven it quite hard through corners etc & not had any probs, just a lack of grunt appears to be the only thing i've noticed & it likes diesel more

[electrokid]

Thanks Matthew. Good to hear that the C5 handles well despite it being a bigger lump. I was very happy with the Granny in that respect so I'm guessing the C5 would still tick that box for me.

[MULLEY]

Well worth a try if you want something with 6 airbags, hydraulic suspension & some mod cons which the BX doesn't have, & they seem to be at a very low price at the moment. The estates cost more, although i was lucky & bagged mine with a mere 115k on the clock for £850, the saloons seem to be less desirable & can go even cheaper. If you do get a mk1, i'd recommend the 2.0litre 8valve Hdi version, the best on fuel, with reasonable performance, very quiet at speed, pretty comfortable, plenty of toy's depending upon spec (mine's a bottom of the range LX one, although the SX looks a decent spec). The exclusive range are the best, however, they seem to have a lot more miles on them than the others, so you may be able to get a decent SX one for the right price & close to the 100k or less. Check the paperwork carefully, mine needed the cambelt, tensioners, waterpump doing & the flywheel as it was knackered (i wondered what the piston sounding engine noise was at the time), thats approx £300, but it will last you another 10 years, so in the scheme of things not bad value tbh. Watch out for the rear calipers which are a known weakspot, the solution is to switch sides with them so the corrosion on the surface isn't present. That's the inexpensive solution, otherwise its new rear calipers. Servicing is every year & there is loads of room in the engine bay to be able to do it yourself, infact its easier to get at the oil filter than the TXD was. Electrical gremlins can be present, but as long as they are for things that don't matter like the split rear tailgate, then no bigge then As always, best to test drive a few to see if you like them or not, they will hopefully drive very similarly, unlike the BX for some reason?

[electrokid]

Thanks for that Matthew - much appreciated.

I'd much prefer to stay with hyrdraulic suspension if poss so that's a box well and truly ticked. As for cost / availability - I've even heard of the odd one being scrapped just because of unresolved electrical issues, so the thought was to get something very cheap and fix it either via Lexia or by re-design to get around a particular problem. I've heard several times that the 2 litre / 110bhp is the best engine - my tame Citroen mechanic virtually threatened not to work on it if I got the 2.1 but he's retiring next year anyway so what to do ?

I'd followed the discussion re the rear calipers but didn't see the tip to swap them over - nice one Dual mass flywheels can be a pain - my mate's 2 year old Volvo needed a new one - very expensive - me saying that I could buy a couple of decent BXs for what he paid to reapair it didn't help Aparently there is the option to fit a standard flywheel rather than dual mass but I guess they used the dual mass one because it works better.

Of course if I could find a BX with less rust than mine that would be fine - trouble is they are going up in value / cost - went to see this one today...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271509861108? ... EBIDX%3AIT

but I'm not sure I would have run to that price even if I had got home in time to bid !

[MULLEY]

Sorry, it wasn't the flywheel, it was the cam pulley which has the bearings inside it, which when they wear out means that when it spins around, it doesn't do so evenly & makes a slapping piston kinda noise. Initially i thought it may be something to do with the hydraulics, but luckily it wasn't, this part only cost £60 although i've seen it as cheap as £35, so not expensive

I reckon to get a decent BX, it will cost more than quite a few C5's for sale, yeah, i'd avoid the 2.2 diesel engine, cambelts are known to snap & they can be quite rubbish on fuel, some only get low 30's to the gallon, & when you consider its only got a 136bhp, that does sound crap. I'm hoping to get my car re-mapped to 140bhp, it supposedly will gain 3-5mpg as result of this as well, i'm hoping it will make the car a lot more lively than it feels at the mo.

Forgot to mention, the stereo on mine is on the blink, the volume is all over the place & sometimes just sounds distorted, i'm going to put an aftermarket cd player in instead to see if that cures the problem.

[jeremyC5]

Thanks for that Matthew - much appreciated.

I'd much prefer to stay with hyrdraulic suspension if poss so that's a box well and truly ticked. As for cost / availability - I've even heard of the odd one being scrapped just because of unresolved electrical issues, so the thought was to get something very cheap and fix it either via Lexia or by re-design to get around a particular problem. I've heard several times that the 2 litre / 110bhp is the best engine - my tame Citroen mechanic virtually threatened not to work on it if I got the 2.1 but he's retiring next year anyway so what to do ?

I'd followed the discussion re the rear calipers but didn't see the tip to swap them over - nice one Dual mass flywheels can be a pain - my mate's 2 year old Volvo needed a new one - very expensive - me saying that I could buy a couple of decent BXs for what he paid to reapair it didn't help Aparently there is the option to fit a standard flywheel rather than dual mass but I guess they used the dual mass one because it works better.

Of course if I could find a BX with less rust than mine that would be fine - trouble is they are going up in value / cost - went to see this one today...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271509861108? ... EBIDX%3AIT

but I'm not sure I would have run to that price even if I had got home in time to bid !

You got off, electrokid, !! A good job you didn't get home to bid, I went to see that one, he had trouble keeping it going with a drive around the block.
It did have something going on with the rear nearside panels, unlike what he said about the bodywork be all A ok.
My overall impression was that it was a bag of bits !!

[electrokid]

You got off, electrokid, !! A good job you didn't get home to bid, I went to see that one, he had trouble keeping it going with a drive around the block.
It did have something going on with the rear nearside panels, unlike what he said about the bodywork be all A ok.
My overall impression was that it was a bag of bits !!

Yeah - I was pretty unsure about it. There were 2 reasons for me not getting home in time to bid - one was that half the roads around Woking are closed which makes 'rush hour' traffic run at about the same speed as that in Weybridge - 2mph on a good day - and the other reason - I stopped for a cheeseburger and fries on the M25 He let slip that it had been standing for 6 years - just like the other junk he has in the driveway then - he wouldn't let me take it for a test drive... I wonder why It needs welding rear of NS sill where the vertical meets - not a nice place to see corrosion starting - little bit of rust at the back of the slam panel as well. Rear exhaust hanger seemed ok which is unusual - not that the silencer was actually attached to it I might have been tempted at the £400 starting price but it went a bit silly IMHO.

Sorry, it wasn't the flywheel,

Lucky escape then

hoping to get my car re-mapped to 140bhp, it supposedly will gain 3-5mpg as result

I took a mini from 850cc to 1100cc with high compression - much better mpg too. I think 'tuning up' doesn't always cane the fuel consumption as we think it might.

I'm up to my eyes with things for the next few weeks but after that I might start looking more seriously.

[hilarystone]

I had the2.2HDI engine in my C8 remapped – it was supposed to raise power from 128bhp to about 155bhp – its certainly made it feel noticeably quicker but until its been on a rolling road I would not be certain by how much but fuel consumption has suffered from 38 to about 35mpg. However the mid range for overtaking is very welcome.

[MULLEY]

Hmmm, something is wrong, i went to my local racetrack & flat out she'd only do 105mph, thats someway short of the supposed 118mph, so down on power then, which explains why it feels a bit lethargic to drive???

[jeremyC5]

Mulley, does it cost you for a lap or two around the racetrack ?

[MULLEY]

Only fuel