Midway between an 8v and a 16v

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:02 pm

I was just thinking that given 16v command a premium, and yet a good manual 8v GTi doesn't have the same 'appeal', what are the differences between the two, really? Apart from the obvious, that is: Engine, gearbox (?) and body kit. I understand Ph 2 had thicker rear anti roll bar and the spheres are a different spec (harder?).

But why not take a decent 'project' 8v GTi and tweak it. The engine's pretty good, but might benefit (as one of mine did) from a Weber Starchip - which gave an increase in power of about 12%. (Too costly?) The spheres could be changed for 16v ones couln't they? And what about roll bar?

I did consider this as a project once - using a TZi estate and 'sporting it up'.

But maybe not.

I think this is more a point of interest really - because the question why bother? comes to mind.

Depend on the cost... Donor car: £150. Spheres bar bushes etc. £250? Ph 1 body kit - maybe another ton if you can find some, etc. Then you've got to paint the creation. Could end up with a nicely turned out GTi for less than the cost of a decent 16v. Easier to live with day to day maybe?

Just a thought!

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:21 pm

Since people can hardly give the real thing away I can't see the economics - especially if it is to be fitted with a body kit which will have to be painted.

8 valve isn't that much slower at road speeds and has a better bottom end pull - as well as more relaxed gearing - decent car in its own right!

Incidentally I think the 16 valve spheres are only available from Citroen (£50 each?)

tom · Post by **tom** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:37 pm

Turbodiesel estates use 16V spheres at the front, available from germs swedes and frogs. The 8valve GTI is a little thirsty but quite a good car. I'd skip the chavving up, though. Spend it on an ignition rebuild instead and neuter the cat.

cavmad · Post by **cavmad** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:13 pm

I think the estate idea is a good one. I love my estate c/w Morettes, non standard alloys and Scooby vent. Not everyone`s cup of tea I expect but it`s different, it turns heads and even gets favourable remarks occasionally.

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:04 pm

I wouldn't 'pimp' the ride - I think I'd even forego any body mods - but put 16v Speedlines on with a decent tyre. Just try to give the car a sportier feel and stance, I guess.

Ignition rebuild? What's that? What would it do?

Kitch · Post by **Kitch** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:31 pm

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a bit of something different.

But theres good reason as to why the XU9J4 is one of the best 16v engines ever produced. I've had "fun" with a mates GTi on the road and I do freely admit at lower revs and pulling away there is nothing there at all.
But hit 3rd gear and wind it to 7200rpm and the 16v literally tears the GTi a new hole.

Spend the money tuning the 16v lump, and you end up with something very rapid. Although its harder to tune it, seeing as its at a high state of tune as std.

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:49 pm

I guess the point I was trying to make was that a decent 16 valver is going to cost a grand, maybe. Or even £750 if you're very lucky. You can pick up a decent 8v for less than half that, so although I conceed the 16v is a properly sporty BX (and I want one!), for the cost of some minor tweaks you get a 'poor relative' but fun nonetheless.

For a fun track day car (or weekend blaster), I wonder what a well sorted GTi 8V, stripped out with some minor adjustments would really cost. Only because I don't think I'd - for instance - willingly strip out the interior of a 16v!

My guess you'd be looking at £500 tops. And if you stuffed it - well it wouldn't be the end of the World (unless you got stuffed too!).

Just a bit of fun, contemplating it really. Nothing serious.

Yet.

Kitch · Post by **Kitch** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:33 pm

Yeah I get where you're coming from.

But I would argue 16v's are far cheaper. They're making crap money at the moment. Last two have gone for £500 and under and been pretty solid examples, if not needing a bit of TLC.

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:44 am

When I am in the market I will seriously look at any 16v's on the market (or imminently so) as I'd prefer one. But I really wonder how good (read: reliable) a £500 16v could be? Would it end up costing me over that again to get problems sorted? OR have I got it all wrong? Are 16v's actually falling in value to meet the prices of other BXs which seem to have bottomed out and in some cases are rising slightly?

Whatever the case these cars are seriously undervalued.

Cornishbx16v · Post by **Cornishbx16v** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:06 pm

the last sub £500 needs a fair bit of work to get it in a proper good state!
i thik that any £500 16v will need the same tbh! the general concensus is that a good bx will set you back around 700-800 an very good one 800-1000 and a minter 1000+
you have to bear in mind that the 16v is the flagship model of the range! so it deserves the higher pricing!

i think though if for instance you were to get your self a gti which can be had for peanuts at the mo (say £150), and do a bit of work to it,light head work, say fast road cam, vernier pulley, chip, good exhaust and a little breathing mods then you may be finding a quick motor in a stealth shell as such! but it will cost! and by the time you've spent everything to get it up to what would be approximately 16v power you will have prolly spent what a 16v would cost!
if you want to make a normal gti quicker then strip the hell out of the inside of it! you could prolly save around 50kg's by removing everything you dont need (you only need one seat!) that would make a lot of difference!

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:33 pm

That's always the problem isn't - what you need to spend to improve an aspect (in this case performance) of a model that was bettered by the 'flagship' of the range in the first place. I think a well serviced, stripped out GTi with an induction kit and some new plugs, leads, filters, and so on. Combined with a decent set of tyres and a sports back box (only 'cos the droopy one looks, well, droopy) will only set you back about £500. I'm tempted to try, just as a track day/weekend blast car.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:08 pm

For an appreciation of what is needed to bring an 8valve (205GTi in this case) to 16 valve power and many other interesting tuning discussions have a look here

probably explains why the 205 people like 16 valve engines

http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/

cavmad · Post by **cavmad** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:25 pm

If it`s a 16V you`re after Philip let me know.

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:35 pm

That's genuinely interesting. I imagine a GTi 8v fully standard (I wonder if the exhaust system on the BX would be praised as much) but with an engine that was developing something like it's design maximum would be plenty fun enough then. Having owned severel GTis I am surprised at the difference between all of them. The strongest belonged to 1991 manual with a Starchip. The weakest has been my current GTi auto which isn't that bad it just is a bit tired. When I've had the engine work done it should be improved. At least it won't smoke. So I will in due course be considering a late, non-cat GTi with a good engine and manual 'box.

Were all Hurricanes catted? The reason being I like the body kit.

Oh what am I on about?... I'll have to go for a 16v!!!

tim leech · Post by **tim leech** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:30 pm

Guy on the 16v has just bought a car same as mine but is now selling it as the inner wings need plating. Look on the 16v forum Phil. Its got aircon too!