Rapid LHM Loss

Way2go · Post by **Way2go** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:09 pm

Hi Guys URGENT,
Need your thoughts and solutions to a problem experienced today.
Was on the return of a long journey and the lhm+Stop lights came on. Had not had to top up lhm for some time so this was obviously concerning and stopped on the hard shoulder. Was carrying a litre of lhm and threw half of it in but noticed that I was leaking it fast from the nearside wheelarch. Drove a few miles to get of the motorway and was obviously losing it fast as front suspension low and still leaking. Car too low for jack even though rear circuit up so threw the rest of the lhm in which didn't last very long (20mph, Hazards and hand on handbrake

) Then lost power steering too so after running a while thought I'd better lay up for the sake of the pump.

Now after returning with a trolley jack to assess what's needed found that the nearside strut return pipes had blown off.

which as far as I can see is the only problem. Now I need to visit and cure the patient tomorrow so would appreciate any clues from you guys of what you think the problem is, whether just reconnecting will solve it or are there other underlying issues.

If the pipes are likely to come off again quickly is it best to buy a gallon of engine oil as a disposable commodity to get it the 20 miles home as towing is not possible due low front and its an auto?

Please, all info and advice needed quickly.

Thanx

ken newbold · Post by **ken newbold** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:42 pm

Put some fluid in and start the engine. Try to see where the leak is coming from. If it's coming from the strut return pipes it's simply the seals in the strut that have failed, a replacement strut is a quick and easy fix, even on the road side.

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:55 pm

ken newbold wrote:...a replacement strut is a quick and easy fix, even on the road side.

If not a cheap one?

ken newbold · Post by **ken newbold** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:59 pm

No not cheap, if you buy a new one. But I'm sure a secondhand one could be sorted. Even a sticky one would be an option to get it up and running.

The other cause of rapid loss I've encountered is the PAS return pipe spliting, although this would normally drip off the centre of the front subframe.

MULLEY · Post by **MULLEY** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:17 pm

Could be the strut is just knackered & thats why the pipes blew off, unless they are split like Ken mentioned. Duck tape round them & then try & zip tie the bleeders onto the metal pipes, bung some lhm in & see if that gets u home?

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:50 pm

If you're going to change the strut the nut on the top is a large size - (33mm but don't quote me - I don't think its the same as the hub nuts) - so be prepared. The thing twists against the rubber mount when you undo it and is provided with a hexagonal socket for holding it. The nut is inside the strut top casting - under the rubber cap so you can't get a pipe wrench on it.

Having dealt with that the thing is actually surprisingly easy to change as it simply fits into a socket on the top of the hub carrier which is secured by a pinch bolt - raise car, undo and remove bolt then lever the 2 limbs the bolt came out of apart to free the strut - which simply lifts out and can be pulled away leaving the gaiter on the car.

New strut should come with the return tubes attached - they simply push on to the 2 stubs on the chassis.

PAS plumbing is all on the other side.

I had a similar experience soon after I got my TD - got taxi home as I wasn't far away and got a lift with my tools the next day - expecting to have to get it recovered or drive home with the suspension collapsed. Added some LHM and drove home without any trouble.

Remember if the height controller is set to low the supply to the suspension is cut off and the suspension will return its LHM as it drops. Not only do you loose the suspension but also the back brakes.

Way2go · Post by **Way2go** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:43 am

I understand your thinking but would you suspect the strut as it's only done 55K miles from new on the car? Found out the shortcoming of the Citroen jack being unable to fit when front suspension down (rear remained up), Had make journey away and back to get low trolley jack.
Although out of LHM when got wheel off, did see squirting LHM behind wheel when looking after each half litre added from my emergency supply litre bottle previously. I wondered if the lhm was back squirting from the metal nozzles that the pipes fit to but I wont know until I try tomorrow with a new supply of lhm. (LHM has run along the underneath and out and back over the nearside bodywork starting from this wheelarch.)

Can the height corrector linkage be reponsible in any way because although the front height corrector is only 3 years old and rises well on the intermediate position it is very reluctant in the standard position despite having been dosed with 3in1 spray and lithium spray grease? This height corrector was actually changed by a Citroen Independent for £170 because the old one had lost it's plastic cap.

How do you examine and effectively clean the linkage? Or would you say this is irrelevant to the pipes blowing off the strut return?

Way2go · Post by **Way2go** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:55 am

Oh - another thought, LHM consuption was negligable before today. Would the strut fail in such a massive way so suddenly? I'm puzzled why both pipes were off rather than just one if it was a pressure build-up?

Ive had a new octopus a couple of years ago, if I ty-rap the tubes on the metal fixings - could this damage the new octopus or other tubes in the return path?

roscoe · Post by **roscoe** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:08 am

Is is possible the sphere diaphragm on that side blew and the pressure from it blew the lines off? I had a simolar experience when my accumulator sphere blew - it blew the return line from the pressure reg off and along with it, most of my LHM. I don't know if a suspension sphere would do this, but 55K miles is pretty low for a cylinder to go. I'd suggest as the others have - put the return lines back on with zip ties, put some LHM in and see what happens. If it blows them off again, then it is the cylinder and you'll have to change it.

ken newbold · Post by **ken newbold** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:59 am

55k does seem very low for a strut to fail. I would be very reluctant to tie the rubber pipes back on, if there is pressure either way, they will blow off at the octopuss end and are VERY arkward to get back on.

Mmm, the shpere failure does look the favourite. I have never encountered this myself but others on here have, do you have a spare one to take with you.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:19 am

The strut returns are 2 rubber type pipes which join in a common rubber block which is clamped to the side of the strut where it covers a simple hole. The pipes join 2 pipes to the octopus and I think you will find that one pipe has a ball bearing type valve in it. The theory is that the contraction of the strut pumps air which is trapped by the ball valve - so when the strut expands a vacuum is created and this draws LHM up the pipes. This simply explains why there are the 2 pipes and the manifold arrangement.

Sudden and complete strut seal failure is uncommon - especially at this mileage. The seals and valves that cope with LHM don't cope well with gas. A ruptured sphere would release a volume of gas into the hydraulic system but this gas would be at the same pressure as the LHM or lower as it was compressed behind a diaphragm. It would however pass valves and seals - and I suppose if it went down the strut it would push out and LHM that had passed the seal before. While this might be alarming and messy I don't think it would empty the reservoir and if it did it would come out of the reservoir itself - which would show signs - le fresh LHM all over it.

A sphere casing would hold 1/2 litre or more.

The LHM reservoir holds about 3 or 4 litres of LHM and there is plenty left when the light comes on - so for the steering to fail after you had added 1 litre more I suppose you have lost 3 or 4 litres - which is considerably more that could have been taken by a collapsing sphere.

Way2go · Post by **Way2go** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:18 pm

UPDATE:

Hi Guys. Hoped that it wouldn't be the strut but looks definite on my visit today. Put a Litre of LHM in and car rose OK and although the pipes didn't blow off they also must have sustained damage when they were flapping as half a litre immediately squirted over the strut & hub in about 5 mins and continued squirting for a while even when engine was off. (Returns are only 2 years old from GSF)

There is obviously too much being lost to drive so will endeavour to change strut at roadside BUT now I have hit a big snag - no struts in stock at GSF or Euro. Am now going to see where else but if anyone can recommend please let me know. Many thanks for the advice so far - it was spot on even though I was hoping agaist hope!

Way2go · Post by **Way2go** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:01 pm

Hi, am having difficulty locating a strut - does anyone have a known good one that they could help me out with?

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:57 pm

Is this what you are looking for?

http://citroen-hydraulics.com/store/ago ... sionStruts

Then click under suspension struts.

Way2go · Post by **Way2go** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:14 pm

Thanks Jeremy, that seems to be the best price new that I've seen. Or if they are reconditioned have you heard of how good a rating people give them? It may be the only way to go if they are available.

Do you recommend this way to go rather than get one from a breaker or other secondhand Strut? (I tend to think it will be)

Regards,
way2go