Have a look at me bubbles...

simonineaston · Post by **simonineaston** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:37 pm

I am trying to put off the day when I will have to take the cylinder head off... one of the strategies I have come up with is asking you chaps for another second opinion, so - pop onto YouTube, if you haven't got anything better to do for 10 minutes

Bung "bx"and "bubbles" in the key word search - I bet my (22 second) movie is the only one you'll find !
Check out my bubbles and tell me what you think.
Movie was posted about half 12 today

M · Post by M » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:12 pm

Couldnt find your bubbles, but found this bloke pretending is BX is a landy..

Way2go · Post by **Way2go** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:59 pm

Doesn't seem to come up on either the .com site or the UK site of youtube.

mnde · Post by **mnde** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:01 pm

Why don't you post a link to it here

Mark.

BX Bandit · Post by **BX Bandit** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:51 pm

Here it be: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikS9qbqNEdM
You got trouble dude! Had a similar but less 'bubbly' problem on my BX...turned out to be the block (new head=same problem). A little bird told me (actually, it was Doc and he's not a little bird)(or a big bird, he's a bloke...with a beard...) anyway, story goes they (Citroen) used cheapo spanisho crappo irono for the the block and hence a few went tit$ up. Yours looks a more lively bubble tho'...suspect Head gasket...? Maybe head itself

ken newbold · Post by **ken newbold** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:29 am

Yup, I'm affraid it doesn't look good.

I would think the HG has failed, but, if it has been bubblin a while, the head may now be cracked.

Big decision, if you take the head off and have it skimmed and tested, if it comes back as cracked, you've wasted your money having it tested.

From past experiance with this problem, I would take the whole lot out, bin it and stick another engine in.

Cheaper, quicker, easier.

Just my opinion.

Post by **docchevron** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:36 am

Proper bubbles....
It doesn't look good mate.
I kinda agree with Ken really, although I'd be tempted to pull the head, examine the bores VERY carefully, if the usual pitting isn't evident about half way down the bore (and nearly always on No. 1 pot) I'd check the block is flat, if it is, I'd wham another head on it.

After all, it's no good as it is, so you've got nothing to lose pulling the head off except for a couple of grazed nuckles and a couple of hours of your time..

tim leech · Post by **tim leech** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:18 am

Call me bubbles darling everyone does!

simonineaston · Post by **simonineaston** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:34 pm

damn it... skinned knuckles here I come. Never Mind, I'll try to think +ive - Thanks for your comments Folks

simonineaston · Post by **simonineaston** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:34 pm

Right, I've got the head off and cleaned everything up a bit, but I'm not sure exactly what symptoms spell Death for my head and what are OK.

I've checked for flatness with the best tool I've got - a straight edge metal ruler - and it looks OK. |However the compression areas vary widely in the state they're in - worst being next to the timing side (where the old gasket had the most gunk and guck) and getting better nearer to the battery side - you can see exactly what I mean at:
http://picasaweb.google.com/SimoninEast ... enBXEngine
I'd welcome your opinions folks as I'm v. nervous about simply clamping the old head back on (got the recomended gasket and a set of h'bolts and a new water pump

) Looks like I might be making that trip down the M4.

DLM · Post by **DLM** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:40 pm

There do seem to be a few cracks between valves, but the old "gasketed"
RD I took apart some years ago had nothing like the pitting on your timing-side valves. I'n no head expert, so can't really add much useful comment.

Does anyone know what this (missing) pipe does? There's is (or rather, there isn't) a 2" section of pipe missing between the yellow arows!

The pic with this comment looks horribly like the set of water pipes around the collector box at the rear of the engine, but I can't really make it out well enough. I've had to become more familiar with them than I'd like lately, and you WILL want to fix them before you put any engine back in. Looks like maybe a bottom heater hose to me (the return from the matrix). Is that a doseur valve at the top of the picture?

If you need to buy pipes in this area, make sure you have the RP no., possibly your VIN no, and find the most BX-friendly Citroen dealer you can.

RichardW · Post by **RichardW** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:32 pm

TBH that head looks cattle trucked to me

Whilst that pitting might be OK as long as it is inside the gasket seal, there's a risk it will compromise it - and the cracks between the valves are bad news - AFAIR these signal death to the head. If Jon has got a known good flat head, I'd bite the bullet and stick that on - you don't want to have to do the job again in a few weeks after all.....

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:14 pm

Removing the head off SIL's RD revealed pretty much the same as seen in your pic's.
We had hairline cracks between valves and around the swirlchamber ports.

But more importantly : on repeated checks with different kind of rulers, we both came to the conclusion that the head was ever so slightly out of true on the gasket surface.
Exactly how much was impossible to figure out, but it defo was out of true using the "lightbeam leakage" method of testing.
That proved the failed HG after all.

Nothing like your corroded beltmost valves though. That looks pretty much like the problem that terminated the HG, as it is a sign of incoming coolant.
No cracks are seen at this end however, which is a bit strange.
It could be one of those incidents where the HG itself has failed longterm due to impurities.

Whatever you do :
you MUST at least spend a skim and pressure test of the head, before re-fitting.
So you're ½ way down the m4 me thinks

DavidRutherford · Post by **DavidRutherford** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:36 pm

I've seen worse heads than that clean up and be fine. A couple of observations though:

That head has already been skimmed. The cutter marks on the surface are unmistakeable. (and tbh whoever did it did a fairly crappy job. You can get them mirror-perfect if you try hard)

You see those really shallow "holes" at each end of the head, on the manifold side? Can you measure their depth? They are depth gauges for the head, indicating how much has been skimmed off in the past. If you skim the head so much that they become flush with the face of the head, then it's scrap.

The cracks around the swirlchambers are nothing to be worried about. They seem to crack after about 3.6 miles from new, and remain cracked for the life of the head. I've yet to see an XUD head without some cracking around the swirlchamber port.

The crack between inlet and exhaust on your no.1 cylinder is a little more concerning though. At this point you need to remove the camshaft, and remove all the collets/springs/seats/valves to have a proper assessment of it. If the crack is only surface, then it could be polished out, or possibly welded a bit to get it out. If it extends past the valve seats and into the ports, then the head is "mixed metals" scrap.

If you need it, I can do both the head welding and skimming, as I currently work at an engineering shop with both these facilities, which is about 40 miles away from you. (Mate's rates apply)