BX 4 X 4 info wanted.

[AlanS]

I received this message forwarded on by Brij Dogra the original "BX Forum" of many years past.
Can anyone supply the necessary info?
I know there used to be a website dedicated to this model but it seemed to disappear a long time back, so if it still exists, the URL would be nice.

Hi Brij, I’m looking on the internet for information on the BX 4x4, and help with doing a clutch change, and came across your site. Unfortunately the Haynes workshop manual specifically does not cover the 4x4 model, so if you can direct me to someone that can give advice on how to do the clutch change I’d really appreciate it. I’ve had the car for several years, although its been in the garage for last 3 years as I was overseas. Having returned I now have the task of getting the car back on the road.

Alan S

[Barnsley BXer]

I would advise him to get in touch with John Hannam( No35 on the BXclub list of specialists) he may be able to help

[Jaba]

Yes I am afraid it disappeared some time ago. The individual, Mike Jeffrey I think, concerned took up BX 4x4 preservation single handed buying up 4x4s and storing them he had 6 at one stage.
Unfortunately he lost enthusiasm when he lost his storage and presumably scrapped his collection.

All this is from memory and may not be 100% true. But either way there is no online info that I know about. Which is all a great shame. There are still 4x4s about. My neighbour in France still runs one as a second car.

But as soon as the 4x4 transmission plays up I am sure each one will be scrapped by any normal owner. Its just too expensive to do a repair. Even the exhaust system is prohibitively pricey.

[Kevin B]

Hello folks,

I am a recent new member, and together with a friend bought all but one of Mike jefferies collection of BX 4x4 cars, (together with a BX19 petrol hatch) approx 3 years ago.
Some of the roughest examples got the hot spanner treatment pretty quick, so as to generate some room.
Should anyone be interested I would be prepared to sell a couple of these cars, for renovation or spares.

Regards,

Kevin B

[prm]

Hi Guys

Not having dealt with the transmission on 4x4’s before, could you educate me with the known problems with these units.

Are the boxes applicable to BX’s only?


Pete M

[Ian_Fearn]

There are problems associated with the 4x4 tranmission, the main one being the infamous splined shaft between the gearbox and the transfer box. This is the weak link in the system.

Providing the oils are changed at reasonable intervals the rear diff and transfer box tend to last ok from my research.

The propshaft bearing design is rubbish and the rubber perishes and seperates the bearing from the outer mount. These are 90quid new from Citroen and its not the hardest job to change.

I spoke to a CCC member about 2 years ago who told me that the Peugeot 405's from the GRx4 to the Mi16x4 had the same transmission as the BX and that they had done quite a bit of research into sorting the splined shaft problem. It essentially involved bonding the splined shaft into the gearbox and transfer box to stop the splines 'chattering' and ultimately breaking.

It was always recommended by Citroen to replace the splined shaft when the clutch was changed. A clutch change is a definate engine out job. The shaft was about £400 when i had my 4x4.

I still love the way the 4x4 drives. It was the only car i've ever felt proud to own

[Kevin B]

I concur with everthing Ian Fearn has said.

Indeed the most serious deficiency is the very fine splines that mate the ouptut shaft of the g/box to the transfer box. Failure is caused by fretting between the two mating components, and you get no warning when a failure of these parts is imminant. Gti's seem more suseptable than Estates possibly due to a more powerful engine than the estate version.

A very similar problem can effect the 5th gear mainshaft splines / syncro hub on the BE3 g/boxes particuarly on 16v and TD cars, as I have come across a number of such occurances.

The exhaust system is also a pain, unique to this model, circa £600 Plus when I enquired at a Citroen garage over three years ago, so apart from the first section of the front pipe I made a good replica system from scratch.

The GTi version also has ABS, and as you would expect the rear sensors are unique to it.

The fuel economy is not good as they have the lowest ratio g/box fitted of any Citroen BX.

Their is some parts interchangability between the citroen and peugeot versions.

Otherwise an excellent car, and as such a car for the true Citroen enthuisiast !!!!!!

[prm]

Kevin – Ian,

Many thanks for the info.

I’ve often considered a 4x4 GTi version, but at those prices, I can now see why so many have been sadly scraped.

The exhaust system should be reasonable to duplicate, but the output shaft ??

Would you consider a life span –mileage wise, on the OE shafts.

Are the new replacements any better quality?? They need to be at 400 plus!!

Regards

[AndersDK]

There is not really a predictable lifespan on the ouput shaft. Its the odd occasion of presumeably an overload of the transmision that fails it.

You can kill it yourself, by accidently selecting the diffrential lock during normal drive. There is no safety lockout on this function. Its selected on an electric center console switch which powers a motorised locking clutch on the diff unit.

What happens then during normal speed driving (30+ mph) is that the locked rear axle will make the rear wheels bounce up & down, imposing torque surges on the driveshaft.

It is of course possible to retrofit any ready made or DIY made bits of speed sensitive electronics that will ensure the lockup clutch is retracted at speed. But that requires electronic knowledge, otherwise the cost would be prohibitive.

[Ian_Fearn]

I had a load of 4x4 bits kicking around my garage from when i had 3 of them.

The only one worth keeping (and possibly the best one in the country??) went to CCC and Bxclub member.

I'm delivering that member a FULL exhaust system for it this weekend. The last of my 4x4 spares.

The advantage is roadholding in less than ideal conditions. They are heavier though so performance and fuel economy is affected. One of mine had a superchips performance box that claimed something like 15bhp and it seemed to make the 4x4 about as fast as the 2wd GTi although the splined shaft went pretty quickly....

Other eccentricities include the recommendation of Totalx4 transmission fluid. I found it hard to get the specs for this oil because Total dont make it anymore. I ended up sourcing it from a dealer in Lincolnshire so i bought his entire stock.

[Gordon]

Hi, I asked Brij the origninal question about replacing the clutch. I'm ready to take the engine out, and had a reply from Soren in Denmark, as copied below.

"I have a BX GTI 4x4 myself and I have removed the engine, transferbox and gearbox as one unit. This was done by lifting all of it out of the car. I guess you might be able to lower everything to the ground by moving removing the crossmember. Well after having the engine and gearboxes out, I had to remove the transferbox first, because there is a bolt holding the gearbox and the engine together behind it. You can see it in this link on picture 4: http://www.citronik.dk/jforum/posts/list/4508.page . Its the one in the upper right corner of the picture.
I dont think you will be able to remove the transferbox without either removing the crossmember or engine, transferbox and gearbox as one unit.

That being said, Ive seen on a 4x4 Break that it can be done. There, to my knowledge, you can just remove the gearbox as on any normal BX, remembering to remove the bolts holding the gearbox and transferbox together."

So hopefully this weekend I'll get the engine out and inspect the clutch. Don't like the sound of replacing the splined shaft though. Hadn't banked on that expense.

The cars been up on blocks for the last 4 years and I note that the ABS warning light is staying on when the car is started. Some years ago I had to replace the rear arm bearings and the ABS sensor had rusted into its fitting and couldn't be removed from its fitting. I suspect the repair job I had to do on the sensor, which worked at the time, may now mean I need a replacement.

I'll let you know how it all goes.

[Ian_Fearn]

I cant see it being very easy (if at all possible) to separate the gearbox from the engine with the engine in situ.

My local Citroen mechanic probably is 2nd in the country in terms of BX 4x4 experience (John Hannam being number 1) and told me on no uncertain terms that the clutch change was an engine out job and that when you consider the labour required to do the job it was a false economy to leave the existing splined shaft in place.

His experence was that the shaft would last a matter of miles before it gave up after it had been disturbed during a clutch change.

Nice to have you on board Gordon, do keep us posted.