Rear struts : anybody ever opened one ?

cauchoiskev · Post by **cauchoiskev** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:27 am

The reason I am asking is because the sealing joints are not sold for the BX, but I suspect (hope) that there are Xantia joints available which might just do the job.

So, if anybody has (or could) actually measured those joints on a BX (preferably an estate, which is different... I'm asking for a lot here).

I know this is a long shot, but you never know...

sleepy0905 · Post by **sleepy0905** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:32 am

I do beleive you can use the early Xantia units from the MK1 but not the activa units as they are too big.

AlanS · Post by **AlanS** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:46 am

I was always led to believe that the rear struts from a BX are the same as front ones off a GS.
Know nowt about GSs, just quoting something that has been spoken of in the past. It's just that it may be simpler to get bits for an older car than a newer one as people were more into fixing and less into chucking away back then.

Alan S

Post by **docchevron** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:44 am

Never opened one up TBH, I'd just get a set of Xanty struts and do the little mod to make them fit a BX, they're less than half the price of a BX strut.

AlanS · Post by **AlanS** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:05 am

We had one drop its guts on a CX once.
It was due to the car being immobile for a couple of years and sitting right down on its tail, as a result, it got white rust up inside the cylinder and when the car was put back into service, the seals got scored passing over the corroded surface.
When pulled apart, it was a very simple affair with a black rubber "O" ring and a teflon one which both appeared to be undamaged, so we replaced the rubber one, left the teflon as we had our chance and Buckleys of finding another and lived happily ever after.
The car did many miles afterwards, never leaked a drop and was still on the car when it was tailended and written off.

Alan S

cauchoiskev · Post by **cauchoiskev** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:17 am

docchevron1472 wrote:Never opened one up TBH, I'd just get a set of Xanty struts and do the little mod to make them fit a BX, they're less than half the price of a BX strut.

They now sell them for about 60 quid each, which is a fair sum, as I think my struts are probably OK, apart from the joints. I changed the front struts' joints and they were well gone (this car has 200k miles on it), wafer thin and cone shaped. I can only assume the rear ones are fairly similar.

cauchoiskev · Post by **cauchoiskev** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:24 am

AlanS wrote: When pulled apart, it was a very simple affair with a black rubber "O" ring and a teflon one which both appeared to be undamaged, so we replaced the rubber one, left the teflon as we had our chance and Buckleys of finding another and lived happily ever after.
Alan S

So you managed to get the teflon joint out without damaging it, Alan ? If I can do this, I can have a look at my existing joints and measure them, then put them back if necessary.

I have to say every teflon joint I have pried out so far has traces of the removal, I will have to find some less destructive way to get them out...

AlanS · Post by **AlanS** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:52 am

We didn't have much option as we were about 2 hours drive away from home at a weekend.
It was a case of taking it apart very gingerly I think from memory we squirted oil in as we slowly screwed them out.
It's a few years ago now and it was a case of him going away for a weekend and then spending all day Sunday trying to figure how to get home.

Alan S

prm · Post by **prm** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:30 pm

If any members dismantle a relatively new or low mileage unit, any chance of posting O ring and back-up - Teflon/PTFE, sizes.

Might be handy for future ref.

Deal with quite a few companies supplying seals, O rings etc, for a possible match.

Many Thanks.

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:16 am

BX saloon/hatchback models have 35mm dia rear cylinders.
BX Estate have 37mm cylinders.
Xantia pre june '95 saloon/hatchback have 35mm dia rear cylinders.
Xantia pre june '95 Estate have 35mm dia rear cylinders.
Xantia saloon/hatchback june '95 on have 38mm cylinders.
Xantia Estate june '95 on have 40mm cylinders.

As far as I can deduce from the PR-net listings, the Xantia 38mm and BX 37 mm cylinders are using the same size seals. Anyway the Xantia seals are available at very low cost so it wont be a disaster to test them out even if they dont fit.
Note that the seals are located on the inside of the cylinder wall in a recess, and the steel piston then slides in the seals. The O-ring of the 2 seals mentioned is the innermost (in recess) rubber seal while the sliding seal is the tephlone seal located inside the rubber seal.
The largest seal mentioned is the felt washer which is meant to kep the piston surface wetted with LHM - when its protruding the cylinder.
Anyone overhauled a front strut will know how the seals are located - as its the same principle for the rear cylinders.

The later style Xantia cylinders are availabe as spares for less than 1/3 the list price of a genuine BX cylinder. This is because that Citroen last year raised the BX hydraulic parts prices to a ridiculous level.

If you decide for a new set of Xantia cylinders, you must modify the Cylinders hyd pipe stud to clear the BX rear subframe keyhole.
This is easy done with some careful filing off some material from the stud to bring it down in diameter. You may even use a hacksaw to remove a coarse portion of material before finishing the job with a file.

Only other modification is to swap over the old piston rod and bellow from the BX cylinder. The Xantia parts are too short in lenght to fit the BX. But at least you can use the bright new bellow clamp following the new cylinder ...
BX cylinder bellows are still available at very reasonable costs.
Prices in DKK ex vat. Exchange rate : 11.00 DKK ~ £1.00

BX

95 563 031 SUSPENSION CYL 1,819.50 DKK
95 599 871 DIAM 37 - ESTATE 1,819.50 DKK
95 577 323 CYLINDER BOOT 111.90 DKK
26 140 919 BOOT CLAMP DIAM 56 58.35 DKK

*************************************************************
Xantia until RP 06778 (june '95)

96 073 507 SUSPENSION CYL 603.40 DKK
0348 K2 RING-SEAL DIAM 35X3,6 10.55 DKK
5 473 075 PISTON SEAL 35X40,8X2,45 20.10 DKK
5 473 082 STRG SLIDG SEAL 34,9X36,6X0,85 22.00 DKK

*************************************************************
Xantia since RP 06779 (june '95)

5272 20 SUSPENSION CYL left - SALOON 570.30 DKK
5272 22 LEFT - ESTATE 570.30 DKK
5272 24 RIGHT - SALOON 570.30 DKK
5272 26 RIGHT - ESTATE 570.30 DKK
5272 18 SUSP CYL O-RING-SEAL DIAM 37,3 EP3,6 - SALOON 7.40 DKK
5272 29 SLIDING SEAL DIAM 37 EP3 - SALOON 20.70 DKK
5272 30 SLIDING SEAL DIAM 40 EP3 - ESTATE 26.55 DKK
5272 31 WEATHERSTRIP DIAM 38X44 EP2,4 - SALOON 8.35 DKK
5272 32 WEATHERSTRIP DIAM 41X47 E 2,4 - ESTATE 15.75 DKK

MULLEY · Post by **MULLEY** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:59 pm

This xantia strut modification would be very useful, if someone does one can they take some piccies with instructions & post it in the DIY section.

m_2975 · Post by **m_2975** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:44 pm

cauchoiskev,

I recondition BX rear suspensio cylinders all the time. Just did a set on my TZI ans a few months back on the TRI estate.

AndersDK is right, the Estate has 37mm cylinders and the Saloon has 35mm.

I can easily and cheaply get the parts here in Australia. I usually get all the seals including the Teflon one.

From memory the Teflon one is expensive but the others are cheap.

There's only one problem and that is that the Estate seals are no longer available. The Saloon ones are and I can sell you a kit no problems.

It's really really simple to recondition the cylinders.

You just take off the clamp, remove the boot and pull the whole cylinder apart. First you pull out the shaft and then you pull out the inner cylinder. Remove the three seals with a needle and wash thoroughly all parts with clean petrol and dry off with compressed air. Insert the three seals in the same place as the old by shaping the seals into a heart shape and then pressing in. Squirt seals well with LHM and then put in the inner cylinder, then the shaft and over the top the new boot. Put the clamp back over and reinstall.

Simple as that.

Just remember to make sure that there are no small bits of dirt anywhere as they can scratch the inner cylinder and then it will leak.

I solved the seal shortage for the Estate by simply using Saloon cylinders and rebuilding them.

If you want pictures and a guide as a sticky let me know.

Michael

cauchoiskev · Post by **cauchoiskev** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:45 am

That's a kind offer, Michael (sending the seals), unfortunately my car's an estate.

I take it you get your seals from Citroën ? I couldn't find any on the PRnet for the BX rear struts. If you have the part numbers, it would be useful for anyone with a saloon.

Would it be possible for you to measure the teflon and o-ring joints with a sliderule ? That might give an idea whether the Xant ones are useable on the BX ?

Kevin

m_2975 · Post by **m_2975** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:32 am

Kevin,

The parts are from Citroën.

I don't have any that are out of a car to measure at the moment. All I have is what I will write below.

The part numbers are only shown if you look under early Citroën records (ie: Microfish films from the early '90s).

The part numbers are as follows:

Suspension Cylinder Boot: 95 577 323
Felt Seal: 540 9958
Outer Seal(Saloon): 540 9955
Middle Seal (43.5mm): 95604903
Middle Seal (44.7mm): 5272.12
Teflon Seal: 250 43009

As you can see I only have a record of the Saloon outer seal.
Strangely though, I have a record of a Middle seal for Saloon and Estate (43.5mm and 44.7mm respectively).

As I mentioned, I have just reconditioned some cylinders for an Estate but ran into huge problems. The problem is that Citroën buggered up the part numbers of all of these seals. Therefore it's a lucky dip as to what part is right. It has been a problem that no one ever fixed and the end solution was to just buy new cylinders. That's why it's probably no longer listed.

I ended up having to buy two second hand Saloon cylinders and rebuilding those to put into the Estate. This will work fine and you can get the parts to fix it all up.

I hope that this helps.

You will need all the items listed to rebuild.

Michael

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:44 pm

Hi Michael -

You are listing 3 seals for the cylinder ?
Where are these seals located ?
One of them would be located under the teflon seal - but the other 2 ?
Outer Seal (Saloon): 540 9955
Middle Seal (43.5mm): 95604903
Middle Seal (44.7mm): 5272.12

This sliding seal is self explanatory as it is the innermost (against the sliding piston) teflon seal.
Teflon Seal: 250 43009

Thanks / Anders

BTW : PRnet does not recognise the above part no's for the seals.
PS : Anyone still have the old version of the former very widespread BXparts list ?
(the version I have is a late one - no seals listed for the rear cylinders)