SVO in my bx?? Help...

bx tgd · Post by **bx tgd** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:32 am

Hi I have a question to which i will possibly be getting conflicting or alternative answers but i was thinking on running my 1990 1.8td bx on vege oil as the price of deisel is so extortionate!!! can i run 50/50 or neat or what? on the net they say our engines seem little of no mods, i know vwgw oil is much thicker than diesel so at mo prob not good as its snowing and its march!!! but thats another story.. so if i dilute with vege oil than i think the car should run ok?? or so i read on the net. as long as i have a bosch pump.
Indeed does anyone run such a fuel or know anyone who has and do the filters need changing more regulary or, i expect this subject has been more than once covered only cant find it on the forum

thanks

geoff

toddao · Post by **toddao** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:58 am

Hello Geoff,

this is a subject that has been extensively discussed here on the forum - so if you rummage around you'll find almost every possible viewpoint.
In theory the Bosch pump is up to the job and Rudolph Diesel designed the original diesel engine to run on peanut oil for developing countries so veg oil shouldn't be any problem.
I was using Bio diesel last year til it became clear that the result of bio fuels is not saving any planet, just the pocket a few pence or cents. Extensive rainforest clearance is the depressing result of the upsurge in use of veg oil as a fuel as well as pushing up the price of food.
Ethics aside, my pump developed a leak and I went to visit the man at Bosch who said - despite opinion otherwise - you were risking your pump seals everytime you filled up with veg oil/bio diesel - they just weren't designed for it. My seals could have been simply old but I now leave the veg oil for the cooking of chips.
I know many people have run their old Bosch pumped Mercs on veg oil for years so.. the choice is yours. And yes, the filters need more regular changing.

CitroXim · Post by **CitroXim** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:07 am

Todd, you offer very sound and sensible advice

Personally, I'd not use veg in any XUD, Bosch pump or not. I've had the "fun" of replacing a leaky injection pump twice as a result of running for an extended period on veg and several other veg users have reported pump leaks after a while.

The Bosch pump, leaks aside, seems take it though and veg seems to cause no apparant engine problems. I've had the head off a long-time veg burning XUD and it was absolutely fine, spotless in fact.

Then there is the starting to consider. A car running on a high ratio of veg is harder to start in cool weather, smokes horribly and runs roughly until there is a bit of heat around to thin the veg and improve atomisation. Burning veg has a disctinctive but in my view, a not very pleasant odour.

One golden rule is to NEVER run any Lucas (RotoDiesel, Delphi) pump on veg, even small amounts. They don't like it and will express their distaste by seizing up and making themselves irrepairable.

With the cost of veg. vs the cost of diesel, (and the cost of sorting out a leaky pump) it's just not worth it any more.

surrey_man · Post by **surrey_man** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:20 am

Hi i dont know as much as these guys but all i do know is that you need to filter it a lot and use a preheater

thats it thats all i know lol

good luck with it all

Jon

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:04 pm

I run our ZX on one third veg oil (100% rapeseed @ 72p/litre) but add a dose of Millers Cetane booster. It only saves a few quid a tank, but given that the car exhibits no ill effects, and the odour isn't intrusive, I figured over a year it'll all add up to at least the Road Tax value in savings.

mike st gilles · Post by **mike st gilles** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:05 pm

I run both my Bx's on a max mix of 50% veg and diesel and as Phil use a Millers 'Cleaner/cetane booster' as a rule. I also ran a Xsara at the same level of mix for aver 50,000 miles and it never even coughed (apart from at start up; there was a bit of coughing but always ran perfectly after 5 or so secs and only from the first start of the day).
I don't have the Xsara now but my son does and although he doesn't use the veg oil he has had no probs with the car and he's had it for over 6 months now and its on 160k.......
Its like anything, you pays your money and you takes your choice.
I personally never went more than 30% in the winter as the stuff really does get a bit thick when its cold.
I'm going to try my other BX on a much richer mix (80%) come the summer and see what happens.

surrey_man · Post by **surrey_man** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:36 pm

is that used veg oil ?

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:52 pm

No. New 100% fresh Rapeseed. Can use corn oil in warmer weather (it gets sticky at lower temps) apparently, although I wouldn't.

MULLEY · Post by **MULLEY** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:59 pm

Sunflower oil is better at lower temperatures than Rapeseed, however, it's more expensive...

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:11 pm

MULLEY wrote:Sunflower oil is better at lower temperatures than Rapeseed, however, it's more expensive...

Oh, I didn't know that. Interesting.

I know it's more expensive (and as it isn't really that cold at the moment), but for next winter it's worth considering I guess. What is it? - 14p a litre more than Rapeseed? That's still going to be 27p + per litre less than diesel. So it could still save as much as £8 a fill up.

surrey_man · Post by **surrey_man** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:16 pm

and is that using a preheater??

As am running low on fuel and going to tesco later so was thinking of a big bottle of oil just to tick me over for a day or too

MULLEY · Post by **MULLEY** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:33 pm

No pre-heater, just talking about using svo straight into the tank. Best bet is to google veg oil, plenty of sites, with differing opinions on what you should & shouldnt do.

The main advice is, if unsure, then dont use any.

If you are going to use SVO without any heating, then use in lowish % quantities, anywhere from 10-20%. Some people run 50% without any pre-heating & claim not to have any problems.

Best bet is to get a pre-heater system, which can work out quite cheap, i've bought one, just need some help in fitting it, i'll then be able to report back on how i've been getting on.

Then there are the more advanced systems that switch from derv to 100% veg oil (either svo or filtered wvo) using an extra fuel tank fitted to the car, these cost quite a few hundred quid though, & cost about as much again to get fitted by so called experts....

Most of the problems surrounding the use of veg oil, in whatever form you want to use, is that because its thicker, it doesnt get burnt properly when its being used, this can cause damage to the engine, the pump & the injectors, thats why heating the oil reduces the viscosity (thickness) which then makes it behave more like normal diesel...

Do some research, & then let us know what you plan on doing, with some piccies of course...

CitroXim · Post by **CitroXim** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:38 pm

There's reams and reams of advice over on the FCF http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum particularly in the Citroen sub-forum. Lots of Xantia owners run veg in various ratios up to 100% in summer

Do a search and you'll still be reading until past midnight tomorrow.