Nooo! My BX wont move anymore :'(

[TB2]

Today I wanted to put the BX back into the garage to start working on the cambelt, having bought proper axle stands and cleaned the garage this week.

But I can't get into any gear! All 5 forward gears just seem "blocked" and reverse makes a lot of noise when I try to get in. Doesn't matter how hard I push the clutch. I can get into gears when the engine isn't running though.

Anyways, I heard some pretty loud squeeking noise last time I moved the car in and out the garage, especially when I was releasing or pressing the clutch. A friend told me that there might be air in the hydraulic system powering the clutch - if it is hydraulicly powered.

Any idea what's wrong? Is the clutch gone? Or the gearbox?

Besides of that, it still needs very long to get up. If I want it to go from low to high after the engine has been running for around one minute, it needs about 30 seconds until it starts rising, and the STOP lamp goes on.

How depressing

[AndersDK]

You are right Jon.

The torque needed to drive away will let go the rust-glued clutch :

1) have the battery fully charged
2) make sure space ahead of car is clear
3) handbrakes on
4) select 1.st gear

Depress the clutch pedal and flick the starter key a couple of times, until the clutch suddenly releases with a jerk. The engine will most likely then also start no problem.

If the problem persist, then block the frontwheels with wooden blocks.
The idea is to have the starter motor do all the work. This means you have to use a low gear making the best pull on the clutch, but you must also have a load on the front wheels.
The effect is that the starter motor will initially pull up quite easy and sort of winding up the torque until the motor eventually stalls - or the clutch releases.
Works every time over a couple of tries.

[TB2]

Thanks for the tip!

I guess it will also work in reverse, right? Because the car is parked with its nose pointing at a wall. The car stood outside for about 4 weeks. It seems like the battery is in good shape as the engine started without problems after I let the glow plugs do their work. I guess I'll try it right away. If it doesn't work, I'll charge the battery over night.

[DLM]

30 seconds to rise isn't disastrous for a BX - neither is a red light while rising after starting (so long as it doesn't stay on afterwards).

There can be various reasons for slower rising. All the hydraulic components get various degrees of leakback with time, and if your accumulator sphere needs replacing then the reference pressure for the hydraulics will be lower then it should be.

PS - I'd advise resolving basic clutch, hydraulic and other mechanical problems before spending money on hideously expensive leather......

[tom]

Normally, the approach is to start it in a fairly high gear, probably third, wind it up to forty MPH on axle stands and jump on the brakes. THat usually works but I don't understand how you can get reverse and yet no forward gears. the noise seems to be a clue, as well. First question then: How many miles are on the clutch (Some cars can do 150,000 on their first one.) It has been known for the release bearing to go through the pressure plate and that is a major breakage. Then again, it could just be a matter of adjustment. Second question; was the clutch action heavy before it failed? If you needed the bionic boot, the likelihood of the major fault is much greater. (It is almost certain to be this if the clutch pedal does not return with a similar force to that used to push it down.) Gearbox out is a hassle. (I have only done it once and it went very smoothly so I'm not the man to ask what goes wrong.)
Third question: have you had a good look at the gear linkage? bits can and do fall off.
Is the clutch action much as you expect it to be? If it is, then tighten the cable as much as is reasonable and try selecting a gear.
Similar symptoms to air in the works of a hydraulically operated clutch would point to an elongated cable but you would probably have noticed problems before now. The squeak may be due to a dry release bearing. It may free up and just remain noisy for years but try the tests outlined here and you will have a bettert idea of what you are letting yourself in for.

[AndersDK]

Works in reverse as well.

I would select a low gear because the starter motor then can exploit the drivetrain slack to gain at least some torque before it hits the massive load of trying to move the handbraked car.
This worked on my CX, when it was stood for a couple of months awaiting an engine replacement.
Though IIRC it was on 3.rd or 4.th trial the clutch suddenly let go and engine started.
Besides you dont need the hassle jacking up the car.

[TB2]

All the hydraulic components get various degrees of leakback with time, and if your accumulator sphere needs replacing then the reference pressure for the hydraulics will be lower then it should be.

All 5 spheres have just been replaced, they're like new. It could be that the pump is a bit weak though. I think the previous owner drove around on flat spheres for quite some time. (When I bought the car the spheres were flat and it had a tick time of ~4 seconds. Now the tick time is around 30 seconds). Just to see how fast it would drop, I left it in high the other day and 24h later it was still about halfway up. This morning after ~48h it still hadn't dropped completely...

PS - I'd advise resolving basic clutch, hydraulic and other mechanical problems before spending money on hideously expensive leather......

It's just skaï leather anyways. Well I need the headrest but I already got an offer by another user.

but I don't understand how you can get reverse and yet no forward gears

I'm not sure if you got me right. If the engine is off, I can get into all gears, forward and reverse, but if the engine is running, all forward gears are "blocked" while reverse is "making noise" if I try to get in. So if the engine is running I can't get into any gear, only the symptoms are different for forward and reverse gears.

How many miles are on the clutch

The car has ~55k miles (~88k km), I don't know if the clutch has ever been changed, but I guess not.

was the clutch action heavy before it failed?

No it was not. I moved the car out of the garage about 4 weeks ago and that went without problems, before that, the car was garaged for maybe another 4 weeks. So all I did for the last 3 months was moving the car in and out the garage twice. And last time it was squeaking a bit at the point where the clutch takes grip.

If you needed the bionic boot, the likelihood of the major fault is much greater. (It is almost certain to be this if the clutch pedal does not return with a similar force to that used to push it down.)

What is "the bionic boot"? The clutch pedal does return with the same force as I use to push it down. I can't say for sure as I haven't been driving this car a lot, but to me it feels the same as when it was working.

have you had a good look at the gear linkage? bits can and do fall off

No, haven't had a look at that. I'm beginning to think that I'm too much of a beginner to handle this car

Is the clutch action much as you expect it to be?

It feels normal.

I haven't had the chance to try anything yesterday as I was occupied with other stuff, so I'll give it a try today in the afternoon after work. I hope it's just a minor issue... Else I think I really give up on this car. What a drag

[DavidRutherford]

This does indeed sound like classic rusted clutch syndrome.

Try this first:

Apply handbrake HARD
Engage 5th gear
Depress clutch fully
Try to start the engine

One of two things will happen. Either there will be a bit of a lurch and a clunk and the engine will start (clutch is now free), or the engine will refuse to crank over. If it refuses to turn, you have to get serious:

You will need a clear stretch of road. I'd push/tow the car to get it into position.

Start engine and allow to warm up bit
Stop engine, and engage 1st gear.
Start engine. The car will move away on the starter, and then continue at idle in 1st.
Depress the clutch, and floor the accelerator.

Again, one of two things will happen. There will either be a big clunk, and the engine will be revving hard while the car slows down (clutch is now free) or the car will accelerate away. If the latter, then I'm afraid it's a gearbox-off and clutch-off job.

Good luck.

[TB2]

Yess! It really was that easy.

As it was facing a wall I put it in reverse, pressed the clutch and started the engine while the handbrake was engaged. A bit of a clonk, and free it was.
I never heard of the clutch being rusted in place. I'm relieved it wasn't something more serious!

Thanks for all you help!!

[mat_fenwick]

Just think how much money a garage would have wanted to fix that for you...

Tow truck, labour costs, they'd probably want to fit a new clutch as well!

Well done anyway, now to tackle the cambelt?

[TB2]

Yep. I'm working two shifts at the moment, from 8am 'til 1pm and from 5pm 'til 10pm so I'm really occupied and things keep getting in my way. And it still seems a bit scary to start working on such an advanced subject for a novice like me, so I keep delaying it

But I will definetly start on sunday. I need to fit a new cambelt and a new belt for the air con (I guess it's that smaller one on the left hand side of the engine). I want to change the engine oil, drain the hydraulics and top 'em up with hydroflush. I guess I'll also change the waterpump, but I will first have to check how to remove it. I haven't bought any spare parts yet as I want to make sure I'm buying the right ones, and hence taking the old ones to the dealer when getting the spares. There's also some work to be done on the bodywork. I want to paint parts of the underbody with undercoating and there are some scratches and dents around the plastic parts of the body. One of the black rubber stripes on one of the doors is coming off. There's some noise coming from the back of the car when driving so I'll need to take a closer look at the exaust, too. Maybe it needs fixing or a replacement.

Well... There's much to be done. But I feel more confident once again.


Here it is, ready to finally get some attention

[DLM]

Quote:
PS - I'd advise resolving basic clutch, hydraulic and other mechanical problems before spending money on hideously expensive leather......
It's just skaï leather anyways. Well I need the headrest but I already got an offer by another user.

No offence meant - there's sometimes a temptation with a new car to focus on the cosmetics first, and I've done this a couple of times. Pleased to hear you have now moved the car successfully, and have plans for the necessary mechanical work. I hope Swiss Citroen dealers are more helpful than their UK counterparts - and can deliver parts more quickly...

I don't have first-hand experience of the leather fitted to some GTi and 16v models (in the UK - don't know about continental Europe). I'd assumed you were after some of this, the only factory-fitted leather trim ever available for the BX. It's a scarce and sought-after trim in the UK: not that many cars were bought with the option, hence my comment.

I do have a leather-trimmed car myself, but in this came about because the buyer of a non 16v/GTi model wanted leather but couldn't get it from Citroen. He went to an upholsterer instead and asked to have the standard seats re-covered - which probably cost far more than Citroen's leather-trim option at the time.

[TB2]

I do have a leather-trimmed car myself

So it is real leather? Neat! As far as I know there were no real leather models sold around here or at least I have never heard of them, only these skaï leather imitates. It still looks neat and it's confortable, too, so I don't care, but it gets a bit brittle with time. I already have skaï leather seats but they're not in best condition. And as I said one headrest is missing. Luckily, Rémy has a headrest for me. It's not in skaï leather, so I will need to upholster it myself but that's still fine. It's not like it's urgent, but if someone spots one on ebay or sells one I'll be glad taking it.

You're right that it's easier to think about fixing/upgrading cosmetical things while technical stuff easily falls behind. The first thing I did on the BX after I bought it was fixing the sunroof, which isn't exactly essential to run the car...

[tom]

Well done with the clutch. There will be years in it yet then. Most reassuring. Owners of old BXs know the bionic boot. When the clutch gets very old, it gets heavier and heavier. It still works fine but it does get heavy!
I can confirm that it is not only real leather but that it is very thick and well made. The original bill for those seats was £2000! The buyer specified them for a BX when new and the dealer hired a proper coachtrimmer. After fourteen years, it is supple and not a single stitch has broken or torn through the leather. The set washed up in the bay for £33 and I couldn't believe my luck. The only cars with leather on the standard seat pattern were a few Heuliez publicity show cars, probably no more than half a dozen.