Smugness days over

[Philip Chidlow]

I am not alone in getting a little smug recently about the fact I can run our ZX TD on a mix of DERV and veg oil... Saving £££s over a year.

Well those days are pretty much over now with the price of 100% pure veg oil now 98p per litre (up from 71p) - and - would you believe: Pura (until recently 56p a litre) is now £1.07 a litre.

Now, based upon an average mix of 50% that means that the potential saving has dropped from around £14.75 per tankful to £4.25.

Our smug smiles wiped from our faces then. I admit some use recycled oil, but I wouldn't. Soon the cost increases will filter down anyway.

The difference now means frankly I won't bother. The pump seals may welcome that decision...

So now with diesel so expensive, based on 6,000 miles per year, I will spend only £215 more in petrol for my BX or Fiat. Nothing like the margin before.

[docchevron]

It had to happen, supply and demand, and of course, everybodies favorite...Profit.

More worrying is this:

By Sky News SkyNews - Monday, April 14 08:39 amNew rules forcing motorists to use biofuels are about to come into force - even though some campaigners say they may actually make climate change worse.

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The introduction of the Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation (RTFO) on Tuesday will mean that all petrol sold in the UK will have to include at least 2.5% biofuels, rising to 5% by 2010.

But some scientists and green groups have voiced fears that they may contribute more greenhouse gases through deforestation and the use of fertilisers than they save.

There are also concerns the switch to energy crops from food production - including a large-scale drive in the US to produce bioethanol from maize - is contributing to rising fuel prices around the world.

Ahead of the RTFO's introduction, the Government insisted the gradual introduction of biofuels will cut millions of tonnes of carbon dioxide, and said it would not go beyond the 5% target unless it was sure it could be done sustainably.

But Friends of the Earth demanded transport's greenhouse gases, which account for around 28% of overall UK emissions, be tackled by investing in better public transport and mandatory emissions limits on cars.

A survey for the environmental group showed almost nine out of 10 people did not know that the renewable fuels - made from crops such as sugar cane or maize - would be required in their vehicles.

Of the 55% of those questioned who knew what biofuels were, fewer than one in seven thought they were the best way to reduce emissions from road transport, the YouGov poll found.

Friends of the Earth also said two-thirds were not aware that biofuels could be contributing to the destruction of rainforests cleared to make way for growing the crops.

FoE's biofuels campaigner Kenneth Richter said: "People want to see real green transport solutions that will make a difference to their lives - like better transport and smarter cars that burn less fuel.

"It's now up to the Government to set us on the right track."

But Transport Minister Jim Fitzpatrick said: "Gradually introducing biofuels could help save millions of tonnes of carbon dioxide in the next few years and the UK has done more than any other country to make sure they are produced sustainably."

Cant say I really care about the GW aspect since it's all a big con anyway.
What troubles me is that I wont have a choice but to have crappy bio fuel in the car, even though I dont want it.

[MULLEY]

5% Bio mix, you wont even notice the difference, used it myself in a much higher concentration & it was fine, but dont try 80%, doh!!

Infact, dont some companies already have some bio in their normal diesel anyway?

[tom]

Yep! what a solution to the world's problems. At (Just how many hectares) per gallon, think of the price of bread as we all starve to death saving the rock!

GLOBAL WARMING IS BOLLOCKS! SAVE THE V8.

[stuart_hedges]

And it's not even Friday.

[docchevron]

5% Bio mix, you wont even notice the difference, used it myself in a much higher concentration & it was fine, but dont try 80%, doh!!

Infact, dont some companies already have some bio in their normal diesel anyway?

Thats not really what I was getting at, given that the report indictaes PETROL will have bio crap added.
Regardless of whether I'll notice, I dont WANT bio in my tank.
It takes away My choice of what gets burnt in MY engines that I built. And I dont like it.

Bio fuels are going to be as big a problem as this alledged GW soon anyhow.
The farmer I rent the barn off is now considering growing bio shite, simply because the cost of feeding his cattle has quadroupled in a year, and the reason?
Because it makes farmers more money to grow bio than ACTUAL food stuffs.

I really wish the people of this planet were less gullable, quicker to ask questions and not accept the horseshit they are fed from the powers that be, and then they might actually bother to go and discover that the GW myth is just that. A myth.

[cavmad]

5% Bio mix, you wont even notice the difference, used it myself in a much higher concentration & it was fine, but dont try 80%, doh!!

Infact, dont some companies already have some bio in their normal diesel anyway?

Why? I've run 100% (new) vege oilbefore when needed without any problems at all, and in fact spent most of the time driving my 1.9 n/a estate at at least 85%. The testimony to this working fine is that the engine still lives on in Sleepy's old hatchback

[MULLEY]

Erm Billy, Bio & veg oil arent the same thing, i was on about bio.

Doc, i didnt think that you could put bio into petrol, i was on about diesel.

[Way2go]

Bio & veg oil arent the same thing

As far as I am aware vegetables are a biological crop as is corn etc.

[MULLEY]

Without getting into the technicalities of this as its quite boring, veg oil i'm presuming, is people meaning SVO. Bio diesel whilst containing veg oil either as SVO or/& WVO then goes through a process to supposedly get a certain technical fuel rating & is then classed as fuel rather than veg oil which isnt.

So if you physically looked at both, they are different colours & the viscosity is totally different as well. Bio diesel in low quantities technically shouldnt have any affect on anything, except rubber components that its in contact with, so from a mechanical point of view no harm. Infact because bio is a detergent it cleans out the carbon deposits it comes into contact with, so it should in theory be beneficial.

I however accept that everyone should have a choice as to what they fill their car up with, but as we all know, the motorist doesnt have a choice, someone else decides for us.

Back to the bio bit, i personally believe that bio should only be produced from wvo, as this is 100% recycling a product that would otherwise have been discarded. Using svo to create bio in my book is a very bad idea....

Your thoughts gentleman....

[cavmad]

Erm Billy, Bio & veg oil arent the same thing, i was on about bio.

Doc, i didnt think that you could put bio into petrol, i was on about diesel.

Sorry dude, thought people were on about vege oil. Being honest I wouldn't touch bio-fuel from a petrol station, heard too many bad things about it.

[MULLEY]

No worries, everyone uses the same terminology for different things, thats what makes this subject a bit confusing at times.

I've only got my own experiences with Bio, everything was going fine, although fuel economy & power did seem down, until i got a dodgy batch which caused me no end of probs.

So havent touched the stuff since, i've got about 40litres that i need to take back to said bio place & will try & get my money back....

Never had a problem using veg oil (svo), but i've always used that in much lower % ratio's....

Hopefully over time, bio will become more consistent in quality, to be honest if it was esso or bp producing the stuff, they wouldnt dare risk any cock-ups, it would potentially damage their business big style...

This is probably the future to be honest, seeing as the bx is probably classed as a very polluting vehicle by modern standards, i reckon with a bit of bio in derv, its probably as low as modern equivalents or possibly better.

I'm not bothered either way, low %'s seem to be fine, the higher ratio's need more research, & experimentation probably having to be done by owners....

This is a large & quite complex subject, so the more experiences that everyone can mention on the forum the better for all....

I wonder if LHM will get banned one day

[tom]

And just how can a Diesel BX be a high polluting car when it burns less fuel than a Prius?
Are you listening legislators?
Thought not.

[MULLEY]

Its what comes out of the tail pipe & not the mpg that seems to be the current big deal at the moment in the govt's eco culture.

However, i do believe that a higher emmission vehicle thats more economical than the so called lower emmission but less economical vehicle, should in theory make up a bit of lost ground in the respect of being eco friendly, as its using less of a finite fuel resource in the 1st place.

But again, no one seems to have published any real world figures....

More worryingly are the new eco road tax rules for 2009, one of our cars is going to cost an extra £90 a year for the privilige of keeping it on the road, its an absolute joke as we only do low mileage in that one.

So i suspect that my low mpg & high emmission car is more environmentally friendly than one of these so called eco cars that does a shed load more mileage.

So the greenest cars are infact the ones that do the lowest mileage per annum & don't do any short journeys, as cars pollute even more when they havent warmed up sufficiently, unless its electric powered...

One of the biggest jokes is this so called zero emmission tag on electric cars, load of garbage, emmissions are created to make the thing in the 1st place, also when the car eventually gets dismantled, because of all the specialist technology employed in them, the act of dismantelling causes more emmissions as more energy is required to do this.

And then to top it all off, they need to get plugged in to charge up, well how does electricity get created??? either nuclear, or coal fired mostly & they are zero emissions arent they.....

The govt & these so called experts dont really know what they are talking about....

The way forward is to use pre-existing vehicles & if the fuel can be altered to make them less polluting without harming mpg, then this is of benefit to everyone. So thats why i'm not anti-bio with it being added to derv....

These are just my views, i'm in no way alleging i'm a scientist incase anyone starts kicking off about this....

[Way2go]

And then to top it all off, they need to get plugged in to charge up, well how does electricity get created??? either nuclear, or coal fired mostly & they are zero emissions arent they........

The Governments answer to this is probably Yes because their think tank will say they are charged overnight when there is a surplus of power from the Grid. The additional load overnight they will argue will increase the efficiency of our generating plant. A bit like they showcase Dinorwig power station that uses power from the grid overnight to pump a lake back up the mountain overnight, to use for hydro-generation during the day, & then say it is free electricity.

If people plug their electric cars in during the daytime, then the answer is No!