Talking B____X

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Thu May 01, 2008 11:50 pm

Good luck anyway, and I'm sure we all wouldn't mind hearing about the odd ZX update (after all it is a Citroen, even without the green 'blood') or about life in general...

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Fri May 23, 2008 9:49 am

Continuing from another thread...

I don't know what I feel about disposing of one of our two cars to make way for a BX. Both do their job very well. The ZX has been trouble-free and and a great point-to-point car which Liz loves too (which couldn't be said of the 16V) and the Fiat, well it's utilitarian but not as characterless as I might have expected.

I think the only way forward is to find me a garage (which if I had had earlier this year might mean I still had a BX - finances aside) and be patient and find a nice TZD or TXD turbo, or indeed another GTi auto, which you will all know is the true favourite of mine. Conversely I've never had a Mk 1, so maybe one of those?...

Whatever happens I think the BX is something you can't easily get out of your system...

stuart_hedges · Post by **stuart_hedges** » Fri May 23, 2008 10:37 am

Philip chidlow wrote:Whatever happens I think the BX is something you can't easily get out of your system...

Something I've been applying some thought to lately.

A few years ago I went through the same sort of thing with G-series cars, now (having just acquired my fourth) it's BXs. They took a long time to grow on me - I saw the first one as a very capable, but sensible and utilitarian car - but now I just seem to keep coming back to them.

I had an odd feeling of deja vu the other day, driving along the motorway in the TZD, when I caught myself thinking, "This is just as good as the XM." I remember feeling exactly the same way about the GSA I bought from Stinkwheel straight after selling a CX.

I loved the CX and XM and will always have fond memories of them, but it's very impressive that Citroen made their small family cars of the era just as good as the big execs. The CX and XM were fantastic, but for regular everyday stuff on a tight budget I just seem to keep coming back to BXs.

I wonder if I will move on to something else in a few years? I can't see it, somehow; one ZX was enough and I can't imagine moving on to a string of Xantias.

Yes there are other makes, but I can't see myself suddenly falling in love with a Focus, and I already know I don't like Astras (sorry Billy)...

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Fri May 23, 2008 11:41 am

I know what you mean. I must say, it makes an interesting topic for discussion: Assuming for all but the very capable DIYers that eventually (soon) the BX may well become untenable for a number of reasons, what alternatives exist?

The combination of character and capability at often a stupidly low price is an illusive quality. I agree about Xantias (although I'm sure they aren't all bad

) and the Focus and Astra ...

What is out there to tempt the BXaholic away? Something that is younger, just as capable in most areas and relatively cheap to buy/run...

Not an easy one that. Given the BX isn't perfect one could argue that any mid to late 90's 5-door hatch, be it Mondeo or Vectra will be just as good most of the time and in some respects 'better'. But can one really get excited about that?

Blasphemy it may be, but if the BX is no longer a viable choice (although it still is) what to do?

Get a VW Passat? Or... (any suggestions for a worthy successor the the BX?)

M · Post by M » Fri May 23, 2008 12:07 pm

Philip chidlow wrote:Get a VW Passat? Or... (any suggestions for a worthy successor the the BX?)

Buy a Morris 1000 Traveller.

Spares Availability good - Check
Cheap running costs - Check
Easily modified / upgraded - Check
Comfortable - Check
Likely to break down unexpectidly - Check
Needing lots of loving on a regular basis - Check
Funny Suspension - ummmmm

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Fri May 23, 2008 1:28 pm

Don't like them

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Fri May 23, 2008 1:32 pm

I still can't come up with anything...

I was thinking 10-yr old cars, such as C-class Merc estate might be a decent bet. But then bits are going to be expensive I guess. Then there's Toyota Avensis hatch - dull but reliable maybe.

It's not easy is it?

MULLEY · Post by **MULLEY** » Fri May 23, 2008 4:24 pm

If it has to be a modernish citroen, i guess the mk1 c5 is the only one that might be interesting as it still has hydraulics (shame its so damn ugly). Less likely to be able to fix that complicated beast though....

If i had the money i'd have a Cooper diesel as it drove very nice, superb economy, decent performance & £35 a year to tax....

or, i really would like a Honda Insight, they look different, mega economical, 60-100mpg on petrol, decent performance & if you get the slightly newer version, tax free (for the moment at least)....

failing those, a chrysler 300cc crd tank, big merc diesel engined beast where you can force yourself past other cars without a care in the world due to the bulk & the power, oh & it does 35mpg.....

M · Post by M » Fri May 23, 2008 4:25 pm

To be honest - for cars built in the 90's and noughties I cant really think of anything which is mechanically simple and bodily straightforward to repair / maintain - other than imported Beetles, Type 2's (though they are fitted with a W/C engine now) and 2CV's built in Portugal.

Im sure there must be something (other than a Pug 405 estate) but I keep thinking of stuff built in the 60's, 70's and 80's really.

Poverty spec N/A disel ZX estate perhaps? (get a couple of spare rear beams and you should be laughing for long term ownership)

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Fri May 23, 2008 4:32 pm

Marty wrote:To be honest - for cars built in the 90's and noughties I cant really think of anything which is mechanically simple and bodily straightforward to repair / maintain...

Im sure there must be something (other than a Pug 405 estate) but I keep thinking of stuff built in the 60's, 70's and 80's really.

Same here. It's a toughy.

What about Volvo 850?

Post by **docchevron** » Fri May 23, 2008 11:27 pm

Philip chidlow wrote: I agree about Xantias (although I'm sure they aren't all bad )

You're wrong, wrong wrong wrong wrong, so so so wrong!
Thats just crossing that line, really, you're so far past the line, the line is a dot to you!

We only put up with CitroJim having a Xanty cos he's a nice bloke and clearly just needs some help from a Freudian style shrink!

Anyway, back towards the topic, you really cant compare a BX to anything modern really.
The BX was designed to be lightweight, easy to construct and easy to maintain. All of this it was and is.
But the design ethos has changed since then, now everything is safety, "Green", ergonomic, pedestrian friendly and all these other bullshit soundbites manufacturers love.
The BX is from a diferent era, adn all the better it is for it.

There is no reason I can see why it isn't viable to keep a BX on the road, reliably, for the next 20 years at least.
As a DIY car they are actually very friendly, even for a relative novice.
Thats something you just wont get again. Most "modern" cars can be fixed with not much more than a laptop and several grands worth of software.

That aint DIY friendly at all.

If I had to have a "modern" car, then I think I'd err towards a 2.0VTS C4.
Away from Andre's camp, hhmm, I'd really struggle to find anything I could live with on a daily basis I think.

Terry Brooks · Post by **Terry Brooks** » Fri May 23, 2008 11:47 pm

docchevron1472 wrote:
If I had to have a "modern" car, then I think I'd err towards a 2.0VTS C4.
Away from Andre's camp, hhmm, I'd really struggle to find anything I could live with on a daily basis I think.

My thoughts exactly ..........thats my next car ....when my tzd eventually breathes it's last

Although

..........I'll never part with my 2CV.

btw ........I know I bang on about how much I hate wifey's Daewoo [Chevy

] Matitz ........but its just so reliable,the engines are bomb/bullet/idiot proof [trust me guys,if there was a way to destroy a Matitz,wifey would have discovered it by now] ...............they're just so bl**dy boring and devoid of any other endearing features ...

T.

CitroXim · Post by **CitroXim** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:53 pm

docchevron1472 wrote:
Philip chidlow wrote: I agree about Xantias (although I'm sure they aren't all bad )
You're wrong, wrong wrong wrong wrong, so so so wrong!
Thats just crossing that line, really, you're so far past the line, the line is a dot to you!

We only put up with CitroJim having a Xanty cos he's a nice bloke and clearly just needs some help from a Freudian style shrink!

Ahh, we all have our little follibles Doc. Xants are mine

never forget that for all my owning of Xants, my true love is a BX...

In perspective though, I agree, there is nothing to stop anyone with a bit of nous (and this forum) keeping a BX going for years yet. They are, compared even to later Xants, so simple they become a joy. No electronics to speak of and even if they have an ECU they can be diagnosed with a bulb and a bit of wire... Diesels 100% mechanical and infinitely repairable

The older 1.9 diesels have cambelt covers that can be easily removed and replaced rather than the nearly impossible tetris puzzle fitted to later ones

Don't dismiss the Xant totally. The early Mk1 variety, one of which I have, and only made in the first 7 or so months of production was really only a BX wearing a different set of clothes and missing an Octopus, which can be no bad thing. They are as amenable to a BX for keeping going with perhaps the small advantage that they are rather less prone to rust. 1.9TDs of this period are fully mechanical still.

Later MK1 Xants went downhill a bit. they stopped sinking for a start and slowly gathered a lot of electronics, diesel ECUs, Alarm ECU's, deadlock ECUs, airbags and so on. MK2 Xants are up there with any other modern car and yes a diagnostics computer is nearly a must, especially if you venture into Activa territory. I admit to posessing such a computer..

For all that though, they are still pretty amenable to DIY repair and maintenance. By current (and some contemporary standards) they are not as complex or impenetrable as they first appear.

The pick of the Xant crop overall is undoubtably the 2.1TD although it does loose out on having a rather obscure Lucas electronic injection pump. The early mechanically pumped 1.9TD runs a very close second.

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:09 pm

This whole "what could replace a BX?" question is a vexing one. There is the undoubted issue of age. Any 24-14 year old car will give problems and will have its fair share of age-related issues.

But the question is, for the money will a 24-14 year-old C4 be any better? I think for less that £600 you can find a BX that, having been well-looked after in its past will give just about the best value-for-money family motoring and driver-appealing character there is.

so. Unless I have some sort of wake-up call and I've missed something glaring, I will probably return to the BX-fold in the near-ish future. And what is it to be?

I must confess for all it's undoubted ability and driving pleasure I would not go for another 16v. It's too frenetic for day-to-day use.

The best BX I've ever owned was DGK - a very tidy 1991 GTi auto with (working) everything including air con. Now, if I'd spent the money I lost on my 16v's (let's not labour the point though - lesson learned!) on that car - sorting the rust and the FDV etc, I would still be driving around in it today - and be 'better off' (although I think the fuel consumption might have used that difference up by now!)..

So, unless there's a TZD auto with air con out there it's back to tidy GTi auto with air.

Now I might have a long wait

stuart_hedges · Post by **stuart_hedges** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:08 pm

It's a funny time.

I've always run cars 20-25 years old, more or less, and progressed from P6s to BXs during that time. I do seem to have got stuck on BXs though... when I decided to replace the XM I looked around at all sorts of things but there just wasn't anything else available for £500 or less that would do everything I wanted it to do. A ZX estate would have been OK, but the equivalent BX cost less to insure and has hydraulics, so no contest.

I do, honestly, wonder what I will move on to when BXs get too thin on the ground and I move on to something from the late 90s/early 00s. There aren't any obvious candidates right now.