TZD fails to proceed

tlampre · Post by **tlampre** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:56 am

Hi,

my TZD turbo conked out today. Just driving along, a bit of a shudder, and the engine stalls and unable to restart. The mechanic from the RAA came out and confirmed my own suspicion, that the injector pump has shat itself.

I am visiting family over Xmas and 750km from home and have minimal tools. Just some screwdrivers and a socket set.

Are there any simple things I can do to try and diagnose what may have failed? How hard is it to just swap the pump out for a replacement?

CitroXim · Post by **CitroXim** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:13 am

It's very unusual for a pump to just die like that unless it's a Lucas that has been running on veg or very dodgy bio diesel that is lacking in the lubrication department.

Air ingress into the fuel supply side can cause lots of problems and stop the engine. This I reckon is the root of the problem.

There are a few checks to do. Firstly slip the fuel supply pipe off the banjo on the pump and operate the primer. Diesel should flow freely with each stroke of the primer. Depending on the sort of filter you have, if it's the type with the primer plunger on top of it, the primer diaphragm can fail, letting in loads of air and causing the lift pump to be unable to suck fuel into the pump body. Never be tempted to run with the filter bypassed. Instant death to the pump.

A good test is to replace the fuel line from the filter to the pump with translucent pipe. You can then see if fuel is flowing to the pump and if the lift pump is working to draw fuel into the pump.

The fuel return line from the pump can block. Slip it off and blow down it. You should be able to blow bubbles back into the tank.

The stop solenoid could have failed. make sure there is +12V on it with the ignition on.

You can rule out the stop solenoid by removing it carefully (don't let any dirt in), removing the plunger from it and replacing the now plunger-less solenoid body back on the pump. If the engine now runs, the solenoid is duff. It'll get you home but remember that you will have to use the pump emergency stop lever to stop the engine. See the thread "Running 24/7" below for pictures of the emergency stop levers.

Swapping the pump is a task. You need to have the cam covers off, bring the engine to time, lock the pump sprocket and then pull the sprocket off the pump. A special puller is needed although early sprockets have one built in.

Then you have the task of getting to the bottom flange nut on the pump. Often a special "half-moon" spanner is needed. Not a side-of-the-raod sort of job really...

As I say, it's rare indeed for a pump to totally die and I hope the above helps to isolate the problem and it gets you mobile again

ken newbold · Post by **ken newbold** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:37 am

Nicely explained Jim!

My guess would be the stop solenoid, unless the car has experianced earlier problems with air in the fuel.

tlampre · Post by **tlampre** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:09 pm

Thanks for the clear reply, Jim.

I had suspected the solenoid but couldn't find it. Even looking for the wire turned up empty. Maybe that's the problem, the wire has simply fallen off.

The 24/7 thread was very informative, but I couldn't relate the pictures to my pump. It looks like this:

Whereabouts should I be looking for the solenoid and stop lever?

Many thanks, Trevor

ken newbold · Post by **ken newbold** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:55 pm

Oh joy! the stop solenoid is situated on the right hand end of the pump, well buried from view on these Bosch pumps

Not sure where the stop lever is on these, usually around the accelerator lever, but wouldn't swear to this without checking.

It's so unusual for these pumps to fail and not being so easy to get at, I'd be checking the fuel supply for air first.

demag · Post by **demag** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:14 pm

Err I really do hope this ISN'T your problem but the cambelt hasn't snapped has it?

CitroXim · Post by **CitroXim** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:25 pm

Ahh, that's the special pump for an automatic, us Poms don't see too many of those

It has a torque control.

The stop solenoid is well buried Ken. I hope this picture will help. I've removed the engine for clarity in this shot. The green arrow points to the stop solenoid. Note that the electrical connection is protected/hidden by a rubber cap.

Sorry for the quality of this picture. It's an old pump on my workbench...

Later Bosch pumps were armoured in the region of the stop solenoid to deter theft by hotwiring. If yours has armour, it's a pump-off job to get at it althoug they did not fit this until late 1996 in the UK so I'd be surprised if yours has it.

In yours, the solenoid will be well hidden by the big vacuum pipe going to (I assume the crusise control) vacuum actuator.

The emergency stop lever should be in a similar place but will lokk a bit different. In your picture, look at where the throttle cable joins on the black plastic link rod and you'll see a coil spring behind it. That is where the lever should be.

Hope after all that, it is the stop solenoid playing up

tlampre · Post by **tlampre** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:32 pm

demag wrote:Err I really do hope this ISN'T your problem but the cambelt hasn't snapped has it?

The cambelt and tensioners were all replaced about 25000 miles ago, so that shouldn't be the cause. I guess I should unclip the cover and take a look, though.

tlampre · Post by **tlampre** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:44 pm

citrojim wrote:Ahh, that's the special pump for an automatic, us Poms don't see too many of those It has a torque control.

The stop solenoid is well buried Ken. I hope this picture will help. I've removed the engine for clarity in this shot. The green arrow points to the stop solenoid. Note that the electrical connection is protected/hidden by a rubber cap.

Sorry for the quality of this picture. It's an old pump on my workbench...

Later Bosch pumps were armoured in the region of the stop solenoid to deter theft by hotwiring. If yours has armour, it's a pump-off job to get at it althoug they did not fit this until late 1996 in the UK so I'd be surprised if yours has it.

In yours, the solenoid will be well hidden by the big vacuum pipe going to (I assume the crusise control) vacuum actuator.

The emergency stop lever should be in a similar place but will lokk a bit different. In your picture, look at where the throttle cable joins on the black plastic link rod and you'll see a coil spring behind it. That is where the lever should be.

Hope after all that, it is the stop solenoid playing up

Thanks for the pic. My car is ex-UK, the diesels were never imported here. Brian brought it over in 1997. Strange that they would put an auto pump on it, it's a manual turbo. Still, I've not come to expect consistency.

It's 3AM here in Oz and I'm up obsessing about the stupid thing. I'm pretty much over cars and really don't need this on my holiday.

DavidRutherford · Post by **DavidRutherford** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:16 pm

citrojim wrote:Ahh, that's the special pump for an automatic,

Do what now? There never was a factory auto TD. There were alterations made to the 1.9D auto pump to add the kickdown cable, but this isn't one of them. Certainly looks identical to my 1.7TD pump. Presumably that is a cruise control cable on it?

The stop solenoid has already been highlighted. Your mechanical stop lever is here:

And you push it in the direction of the arrow to stop the engine.

If the solenoid checks out ok, the next thing I would do is crack the injector lines off at the injectors, and then crank the engine over. Fuel should spit out of the injector lines. If it doesn't, then you need to check that the injection pump is getting fuel from the tank. Remove the return line, turn on the ingnition and pump the primer. Does fuel come out of the return on the pump?

If you've been running on Diesel fuel only (and not any form of "alternative" fuel) I'd be very surprised if the pump is damaged.

CitroXim · Post by **CitroXim** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:48 pm

Thanks David

I took a bit of a guess at it being an auto pump...

The thing above the pink arrow with the two pipes on it is the cold-start advance system (KSB) and not a vacuum actuator at all. So be careful with those hoses; they're full of coolant!

Sorry for the errors

Is this not an Auto TD then David, or is it a 1.9D Auto?

tlampre · Post by **tlampre** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:37 pm

The extra cable is indeed for the cruise control. It's run pure diesel 99% of its life. I've put a few tanks of b20 in it, that's mineral diesel with up to 20% biodiesel added. Hardly a threat, I would hope.

The mechanic did confirm that fuel is getting to the pump. We loosened the bleed screws and there appeared to be no lack of supply while cranking it over. It wasn't possible to check for air getting in, though.

The sun is up now, so I shall start to tinker.

Post by **docchevron** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:49 pm

citrojim wrote:Is this not an Auto TD then David, or is it a 1.9D Auto?

Thats a 19N/A mate.
There was never a factory built 19TD, although several do now exist.
AFAIK there is only 1 TD auto BX in existence, and that wasn't factory either..

DavidRutherford · Post by **DavidRutherford** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:52 pm

citrojim wrote:Is this not an Auto TD then David, or is it a 1.9D Auto?

That's a 1.9D auto.

The only diesel autos from factory were the 65hp square-port and the 71hp oval port 1.9D units. The later unit is only painfully slow; the earlier one is agonisingly slow.

I keep mentioning "from factory" as DocChevron has built a TD auto, but that needed a completely unique box being built for the application. AFAIK it's the only one in existence.

BX Bandit · Post by **BX Bandit** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:50 pm

Yeah, that Doc is too darn clever for his own good