Starter problem

[Tourist]

You might remember a while back that I was having trouble with starting my car. I did think it was the battery, so I changed it, and all seemed ok until recently.

The problem goes: turn the key, wait for the glow plugs, turn the key again, then nothing happens. There's a clicking sound, but no starter motor.

This only happens every so often and most of the time the car is fine (?) but today I got stranded in a car park somewhere because the battery appeared to be flat, so the starter turned but very slowly and it sounded very dead.

Getting fed up ... my best guess is it's the alternator packing up and not recharging the battery, or I could have a power drain somewhere?

TIA.

[MULLEY]

Have you checked the battery clamps? One of mine was loose, this caused arcing & the battery went flat. If you have any movement, try tightening them up, if they wont tighten up anymore, put some vaseline on the battery terminal, that will close the loose connection & you should be able to jump start the car. Replacement leads/clamps would be in order if that has identified your starting problem.

[Tourist]

Just went out and did them up a bit, no movement now, but the problem is the same

It did this with the last battery, so I suspect something is draining it ...

The wiring is iffy around the engine, there are a lot of loose wires and some that seem to go nowhere. Could be a wiring problem?

[mike st gilles]

I had a problem some time ago with the earth lead from the engine to the battery; its always worth trying that..... ie. using one lead from jump lead set attach firmly to the earth terminal (clamp) and attach other end to the engine (ie making another earth) now try turning it over ....if its better it either needs a new lead or more likely the one thats on there taking off and thoroughly cleaning (wire brush) the area that it bolts onto and then doing up again. If this doesn't make a difference check the same way with the positive lead (just be lot more careful what you attach this to) to the power terminal of the starter. worth giving everything a tightness check whilst you're down there (as it were). If it still ain't working then check your headlights ...are they bright? If so how dim do they go when you try and start the car? They should dim but not overly so....if they do almost go out then the trouble is almost certainly your starter as its drawing too much power......hope this helps.

[Way2go]

put some vaseline on the battery terminal, that will close the loose connection

That is unlikely to work Mulley as the purpose of grease/vaseline is to prevent oxidation of the terminals. Give the pillars & clamps a good clean with steel wool first and then apply the grease/vaseline may benefit him BUT he says the starter turns slowly. If the starter turns slowly with the current that it draws it's more likely to be a flat battery from too many starts on short runs in this cold weather or defects in the charging circuit/alternator.

Could also be the starter motor or it's solenoid though! He could try the battery on his other car to see if it turns that over.

[Tourist]

Well the car was doing exactly the same thing with the old battery so that's why I changed it, now it's doing it with this one. I can swap them back again but I think the same will happen, it just takes a few weeks to get to this stage ... because it was fine for a while after putting the different one in, I think it's something to do with the alternator or possibly starter motor, but I don't really know much.

Not sure if this helps but on the occasions where it does nothing but click, turning the key again will turn the starter motor.

I also noticed that when, after trying to turn the starter, I return the key to the first position, my cd player tries to do something? There's no cd in there but it sounds like it's trying to play one, or eject it, or something similar. This only seems to happen when the car has trouble starting, never otherwise.

[MULLEY]

Worked for me way2go....

[ken newbold]

My Mum's TXD has always just clicked since we got it, sometimes 4 or 5 times before the starter throws in.
I did change the starter and the ignition switch but still the same, so I live with it.

The M reg TZD I had had a similar problem to yours Tourist, the starter would be slow to turn and the next day the battery would be flat.
I eventually cured it by removing both battery leads, cleaning the battery posts and the terminals on the end of the leads, also unplugging all the main +ve connections from their spade terminal (down the front side of the battery) cleaning those, and removing and cleaning the alternator leads.

Not sure which of those actually cured it, but it did.

[Tourist]

I won't get a chance to look at it over the weekend, for the moment I'm borrowing another battery which seems to work (just about) so I'm jump starting from that. Not ideal but better than bump starting by any means ...

Next week I'll have a look and see what I can do.

[rhv100]

Tourist,for what its worth,Heres what I did.......Take the starter off the car.

Take the end cap off together with the brush holder.Have a look at the

brushes...how worn are they? Are they sliding freely in their holders? Look

at the commutator.Wrap a piece of fine emery round it and give it a clean.

If the brushes are ok,clean all the crap off the backplate and holder.The

field coils and the armature are quite tough and dont usually give trouble.

If the brushes are worn the soldering required is beyond the scope of the

average DIY soldering iron so its off to the local repairman.He will

replace them and test the motor for about £20 or less.You could of

course take this step straight away,but then you would never learn

anything and if it cures the problem you"ll feel great!! Hope this helps.


Richard.

[mike st gilles]

What you need is to get the battery tested by a garage or the like and tell you if its ok. It shouldn't have lost its charge in the time you've had it and the fact that you are having to use two batteries to start says one of three things
1. the battery is U/S and you will need to buy a new one ( this is the worst case scenario as it means you obviously have problems in the charging dept)
2. The starter is drawing too much power and needs the power from both to spin and start the engine. (This is not such a great thing either but at least you could cure it by a new starter or go through the procedure as described by rhv 100) .........did you do the tests with the lights as I described in the first reply as that should have given you some idea.
3. the leads are bad (hence the need for two batteries ) and need cleaning as both myself and Ken have advised. Have you checked these?

[Way2go]

Worked for me way2go....

There are causes and there are effects.........are you able to differentiate here?

[Kitch]

Next time it does it, get a normal pair of jump leads and clamp one from the negative terminal on the battery to the engine, then another from the engine to the chassis and try again.

If it still does it, your earth is fine and it's either the supply to the starter (unlikely), the battery is shot (unlikely if you just bought it, although they do have a shelf life), the battery is wrong (some catalogues list an 063 or 065 for a BX diesel....its not man enough, it wants an 096), the alternator is shagged (possible, you need to test the output), or.....the exciter wire to the alternator has broken somewhere or come out the back of the spade/ring terminal on the alternator (the one that tells the alternator to charge). BX wiring isn't great at any age, but at this age the wire is probably as flexible as glass.

[mat_fenwick]

Or...your jump leads are no good. Unlikely I know, but it did happen to me with a set I borrowed from my father in law! In my case it was the negative lead to the gearbox, a high resistance connection at the 'box end. Coupled with a dodgy connection on the jump leads and I ended up buying a starter I didn't need.

[Mike E (uk)]

Before you start taking things apart, check that when the key is out of the ignition switch that there is no current flowing out of the battery.

Do this by removing one battery terminal connection and putting the meter across the gap.

A current meter should read <10mA if you have a stereo and perhaps <20mA if you have an alarm as well.

Any more than that and you will regularly be unable to start, no matter how good your alternator, battery and starter are.

Cars with aftermarket radios wired in without using the switched accessory line from the ignition switch often get flat batteries.

Mike