An appeal

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:20 pm

I know this is a bit out of place, but (I make no apologies) it is important:

THE BXAGON CHALLENGE: 6 months to go!!!!

I need a show of hands guys, as I have not got too much in the way of commitment yet (huge thanks to those who have already said they'll participate on the Challenge)... SO we NEEEEEED MORE TEAMS!!!!

tom · Post by **tom** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:40 pm

Sadly, although I admire your enthusiasm, this project has failure written all over it. Bx owners have, as a rule little money and no facility to take a month off work. The cars are mostly tired and the journey would be asking a lot of them. This jaunt is going to cost £1500 per car, sponsorship will need raising in a depressed economy and so on.

Despite the blind enthusiasm of those who haven't thought it through,
there is little real support (that is hands in pockets type support, car preparation etc.) going on within the bx movement
The BXagon is an ignominious non-starter. Can it now and save the inevitable embarassment.

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:12 pm

I'd rather you hadn't felt it necessary to post that Tom. You may perceive it as fact but there is actually support for the event. I have just met Andy (Arctic) for lunch and he's doing it - and looking forward to it - as are Mat Fenwick, Stuart etc.

There are 9 teams signed up. Of that (I'm being realistic) maybe only seven of those will end up actually doing it. In addition to those 9 I have had correspondence from a magazine who are hoping to put a team forward, as well as five other non-BX Club members who want to participate (even in just fund-raising or in doing only part of the route) and another BXClubber who has come back onto the scene and wants to do it.

If we get 8 teams doing the Challenge and we raise anything like £10,000 it will have been a worthwhile undertaking. I have personally obtained over £1,100 worth of pledges/donations. I hope the BXagon Bonanza Raffle and BXagon Boot Sale at the CCC National will raise more.

In addition with the CCC behind the event too, promotion at the National will see more donations and pledges - if not additional teams (who knows?)...

In recent calculations it would seem £1500 per team is way off. Actually regarding costs, (including diesel) our team will be doing it for under a grand. So if in the end each team raises £1,000 for Cancer Research UK and has a unique experience in the meantime I will be pleased. For instance, even, at the end of the Challenge, we are shy of our target, sales of the Calendar will raise some more.

So Tom, I understand some might see this as a doomed project, but I don't understand why, instead of helping by doing some fund-raising, you chose to undermine it: ingnominious non-starter indeed.

Inevitable embarrassment? I think you need to worry about that, not me.

tom · Post by **tom** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:03 pm

I have raised funds for charities on behalf of BXC on at least two occasions. The wish that I had not felt it necessary to post is a point well taken. That you think it financially worthwhile when you think a car and two people may be run around France for £1000 including ferries, fuel, event insurance (which will be necessary if people are not to be bankrupted, should anything go wrong)lodgings and food is simply fatuous. The raising of money for a good cause does not eclipse the fact that the cost of entering the event is considerably greater than the benefit accrued by the charity. I am concerned that members may find themselves placed in financial difficulty by this over ambitious attempt to organise an event on the pretext of doing charitable work which is why I have previously made no comment either way. I would first wish to be reassured that the event was being organised in a responsible way (you are talking about overall sums of £20,000 even in your most pessimistic estimate) and that the insurance and financial direction are under the control of somebody who is demonstrably of the utmost rectitude before asking anybody to pledge money. That is why I felt it necessary to post. Still, at least you have somebody to blame, should it all end in tears.

frugg · Post by **frugg** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:10 pm

Tom, please don't take this the wrong way but instead of complaining about the excellent event, why not do something to make it better...

Well, that's my view...

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:14 pm

I wouldn't blame you Tom. I have no doubt that you have donated to charitable causes in the past and I wasn't meaning to besmerch your character. Actually, to return to the point, IF it fails (and by that I mean we don't raise a considerable sum for the charity) I wouldn't blame anyone.

To address a few points you make: First it isn't a month it's 12 days. It's 2,500 miles or so and I don't imagine it's going to prove too arduous. To say £1000 is simply fatuous, is your opinion. Fair enough, but with sharing rooms in Formule 1 or Etap hotels, camping where appropriate, eating frugally and getting good deals on crossings - mine was paid for by Tesco vouchers - others are paying under £40 - and using a diesel BX it is actually do-able, Tom. Even with the Euro in it's present strong state.

In entering this event participants have signed a declaration and I had it drafted in accordance with accepted practice. It is in effect a disclaimer obviously; I have no need to take out Event insurance (so I am reliably informed). This is a club run. It isn't a race. As a by-product of this event a Charity will benefit. I have made the whole thing as transparent as possible and donations are made via JustGiving.com.

Every team entering has been asked to arrange their own insurances - including roadside assist/repair/repatriation cover. Each team will be self-funded yes, but the idea that maybe because the cost to participants could end up being comparable to the amount raised renders it a futile undertaking is missing the point. I will not be able to raise anything by asking someone to sponsor me to stay at home. Likewise it is unreasonable to ask members to NOT participate, but to give the money they were going to spend fielding a team to charity. Who'd do that?

I think Tom, your position seems to reflect the fact that you have not looked into the BXagon sufficiently. I suspect you have not read all the information. Fine, you can still comment - it stimulates further reiteration of the issues surrounding the BXagon.

Points you raise have been addressed in the past. Much discussion took place and admittedly part of the reason we are doing it is a celebration of the BX too. The fact that Cancer Research UK get a few grand is brilliant. But not justification in itself. In addition those taking part will be the pathfinders for future events. If the BXagon works out it will form the template for other clubs to do the same.

Let's see how it pans out, shall we? Cheers.

tom · Post by **tom** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:58 pm

You have said:
"In entering this event participants have signed a declaration and I had it drafted in accordance with accepted practice. It is in effect a disclaimer obviously; I have no need to take out Event insurance (so I am reliably informed). This is a club run."

This is exactly what happened to the Land Rover club. Somebody died on a club event and the club's officers were jointly sued by the widow. Five families lost their homes.

I don't give a damn about your "reliable information" , you are not covered, you could be bankrupted and that is a fact .

Have you checked out the legal position in France if somebody on an organised event should be involved in an accident? I can assure you that it is a matter that will not be handled in a laissez-faire fashion over there.

It is all fun until somebody gets hurt, jailed or bankrupted and while you may think I'm not doing my bit, if I'm protecting the membership from what appears to me to be careless organisation (or spurring you towards doing what you must do) ,) then I am.

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:00 pm

Tom, you have succeeded in persuading me to get the situation clarified further. I will take more legal advice from another, independent source. I do not doubt your motives in pouring scorn on my organisational efforts, Tom. I will do more to reassure and protect those involved. I am a conscientious person and have not, as you suggest, jumped into this without due consideration.

I have checked out the legal position in France. It is all down to the interpretation and definition of 'organised event'. Signed disclaimers and my public liability insurance aside, I can provide more information closer to the time, but rest assured the documentation and legal position will be fully established in good time.

Again I appreciate your 'devil's advocate' stance. You wouldn't have been the first.

If necessary the BXagon Challenge will be slightly re-packaged. As it is the event is a 'facilitaing' platform for individual teams to privately raise money for Charity. Niaive I am not. Credit me, Tom with some intelligence and more so, with some determination to do it right.

It is NOT as you seem to insist, a non-starter. Needs effort and due diligence (so to say)... but it will happen.

Kitch · Post by **Kitch** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:28 pm

God how I've missed this place! Been away for a month and a half and practically the first post I stumble upon is someone pissing on someone elses chips.

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:57 pm

That's nothing. You should've been here a couple of weeks ago!

Kitch · Post by **Kitch** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:01 pm

Glad I wasn't, I nearly died of boredom starting to read what happened! All a bit anal really, but then these cars do attract some nutters. There was a bloke at the nationals in a woman's wig and make-up. Scared the shit out of me!!

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:17 pm

I think that was T*m.

Oh sh*t sorry, Tom - or Tim, of course - I forgot, this isn't BXproject.

Post by **docchevron** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:18 am

Kitch wrote:Glad I wasn't, I nearly died of boredom starting to read what happened! All a bit anal really, but then these cars do attract some nutters. There was a bloke at the nationals in a woman's wig and make-up. Scared the shit out of me!!

You been reading the wrong threads dude!
Check this bad mother out for an almost blow by blow account of the shit as it hit the fan. *Disclaimer* It's full of vitriol and language that many would consider ungentlemanly, if you're easily offended, or a twat, do not click this bad ass link.
If you like ungentlemanly conduct, then this bad ass thread is the mofo for yo

Bitchy? Me? Good lord no!

Post by **Tim Leech** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:15 am

Philip Chidlow wrote:I think that was T*m.

Oh sh*t sorry, Tom - or Tim, of course - I forgot, this isn't BXproject.

Wasnt me mate, I look fecking awful in a frock!

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:35 am

It was a bit scary though... obviously a DS owner