I did something stupid.....

PhilGreaves · Post by **PhilGreaves** » Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:26 pm

Hello everyone!!

My name is Phil (as the imaginative username suggests), I’m 21 and I’ve done something stupid....I’ve finally got my dream classic car: a Citroen BX 16TRS. It’s a mark 1 so has the dashboard I remember from my childhood- so really it’s all the parents’ fault (!). I’ve been warned by our mechanic who is picking it up now that it “isn’t in quite as good a condition as I’d hoped”. Therefore it requires a ‘few’ things doing before its driveable anyway....

It needs a service, a cam belt, ideally a carburettor but they’re expensive apparently and it runs on gas fine and most of the pipes are of the old type- you know the ones that corrode and leave green stuff all over the driveway as your neighbour’s F**d drives off faultlessly....

Anyway jumping straight in, the parts I need/need help finding are:
-Sills...the curent ones have been welded but I need some new ones really. Where do I get these from?
-Doors. The front ones i think. Although apparently there was an agreement with a chap in Dorset for some free ones...
-Interior. The existing seats are mucky and baggy. So ideally a tweed effect one, standard on the later models I believe.
-Also for future reference where’s the best place to go for hydraulic work nowadays? Whilst our garage could do it I get the impression they could be expensive so id really appreciate some advice on where else to go. From what I can gather it is ‘just’ some of the pipes that need doing.

On the plus side it’s on LPG, low mileage, structurally o.k. (pillars etc), has two ‘new’ front wings to replace the original rusty ones and recently had a new battery. Oh and the hydraulic pump has been done so at least I won’t have to worry about getting a new one/get one reconditioned.

So I’ve got a car with a host of issues, I haven’t even seen it yet and I’m not going to drive it for 6 months- insurance has gone up a lot in just 3 months. I really can’t justify spending that when I don’t intend driving it everyday/don’t need to drive it and my mum is happy to drive it to from the garage and to the CCC national at a far lower cost! Not that insurance costs matters when it has the above issues anyway and is obviously going to be at the garage a while.

So I’m off to see the car on Wednesday and whilst I’m there at the Matiz the garage is selling- i need an everyday car...apparently.

This raises the question: am I crazy??!

Thanks in advance for all the helpful advice I’m sure I’ll get but please note it’s no use pointing out that I’m crazy now- the car’s been bought and I intend to finish....before 2012.

Regards
Phil

P.S If anybody saw a red BX on a trailer travelling north from Cambridge then chances are it’s mine!

Lester · Post by **Lester** » Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:34 pm

Welcome to the BXClub!

A red mark 1 16TRS with LPG - sounds like Greame Mcnulty's old BX to me (Aerodynamica on here).

Is it this one?

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:39 pm

When you said

I did something stupid.....

I though you meant you'd bought a C5 or something! Welcome aboard, yes you're probably crazy but that helps with things. I wouldn't worry about the carb so long as it starts and doesn't leak. I would assume that you'll switch over to gas as soon as you start - I can't stand running on petrol for longer than the bare minimum.
Probably the best bet is to find a cheap spares car of the right colour if no offers are forthcoming. Check eBay for the hydraulic pipes, there is a company (AEP) up in Glasgow that usually have a good selection on. The alternative is Plieades(sp?) who make up copper/nickel pipes.
As for carrying out the work, I hear there's a decent place in Wakefield.....Ken?

EDIT - yes, it much be Graeme's. He knew David down in Dorset and I'm sure the door subject was mentioned on here.

Lester · Post by **Lester** » Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:44 pm

mat_fenwick wrote:EDIT - yes, it much be Graeme's. He knew David down in Dorset and I'm sure the door subject was mentioned on here.

Ah...Good! Glad it's still in the club.

PhilGreaves · Post by **PhilGreaves** » Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:55 pm

ha ha yep same one.

No i wouldnt touch a C5. A neighbour of ours had one of the first in the country (series 1 ex demo) it had constant electrical issues, the boot never worked properly and it wasnt self leveling. Worse still the garage could never diagnose the faults/cause.

Well Wakefields near so i look forward to meeting Ken. lol maybe he can reassure me!! At this stage advice would be great.

Ill know more once ive seen it of course.

As far as im aware the carb isnt leaking now and it just "dunt run right well on petrol".

The funny thing is as well...not only have i not seen the car but ive not met the mechanic- im always at uni when my mum's xantia (mk1) goes in for a service/work. Ahh the fun of being a Citroen enthusiast.

I've also been told again to find some tweed seats- full set. Funny i got taught that in a resto project you start with mechanics and body first and then cosmetics....

Im just hoping his doesnt end up like the last one we had. D reg 16 TRS in marroon that suffered MHF. Ironically given that we traded it in for the world's worst built car ever (Citroen ZX) we'd probably have been better off fixing the BX after all it was just the pipes (we'd already had the pump reconditioned).

Post by **Tim Leech** » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:17 pm

Hi Phil

Glad to see you bit the bullit, I need a Mk1 for a test feature so lets hope its up to scratch soon.

Tim Leech

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:27 pm

You can get a bit more history on your car here.

PhilGreaves · Post by **PhilGreaves** » Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:23 pm

Thanks Matt, already know lots about the car history wise- part of the reason we got it!

Apparently there was an outstanding agreement over the doors so i shouldnt need a spares car although i wouldnt have space anyway (lets just say the garage is already full

). Space is a bit tight here and im still hoping that one of my dads friends will be able to squeeze the bx in next to his PD3 Southdown over the winter months. But i guess that theres plenty of time to figure that out.

Hi Tim. Yes i finally did...i sent you a pm on the CCC forum with my contact details. I'll be sure to send you some pics on wednesday when we go to the garage. Im looking forward to it as ill finally get to see his Type 23 too. I would post the photos here but ive got no idea how...is there a sticky about it...joke...

ive read the sticky and understand it (ish) but dont have photobucket flicker etc and dont have time to look into it at the mo.

Well technically Tim its road legal- got 12 months MoT it just has the above issues. But guess im far too away? Anyway all being well itll be at the national.

Aerodynamica · Post by **Aerodynamica** » Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:43 am

Dammit. I knew this BX was going to be found eventually - The guy I sold it to in October said it was up for grabs again but I thought he'd SORNed it. I wanted it back! I had big plans for it.

Anyway, I'm surprised to hear you reckon it's full of problems as it was in fairly good order when it left me!

The car should have come with a spare clutch cable and new cambelt (unfitted).

As for the doors: the near side front and rear doors are only newly fitted about 8 months ago - they are 100% rust and dent free will fully functional electrics. The two other doors that David had in Dorset well available to me last summer but no 'agreement' stands as such - just call or PM David Rutherford and explain you are aware of two red BX doors ha had last year that I didn't pick up. He might very well still have them.

The front seats were tired looking but the rear seat was really good- don't throw it out if you find the tweed ones.

There was something amiss with this car's FDV valve that I never got to the bottom of. It has 5 new spheres, new LHM (last year) and a pair of brand new headlights. The LPG system will need a new tank as the one fitted in the boot is way too small and only delivers about 110miles.

I didn't think the sills were rusty? unless they've gone in the last 10-12 months.

There is a new fuel pump fitted and the HP pump is brand new old stock and was expensive! all of the ignition plugs, leads and the whole distributer are NEW (ensure the plug gaps are a teeny bit smaller than the 'book' value as they need to be a bit tighter for LPG)

Also, I fitted air horns to the BX - I'd recommend changing the compressor as the one fitted is a 6volt item and runs at double the speed - I'd grab an old 12v one off a scrap CX (you're not too far from Stan Platts in Bradford are you?)

What else can I tell you about this car? Er, it has brand new hatchback struts and the anti roll bar links were renewed. New front disks and pads.

I think I renewed the battery (only last year and I can't recall this for sure - that's worrying

)

The front height corrector and linkage were rebuilt.

Cambelt was inspected and deemed OK at the time - see photo on the blog about this car but maybe time to change it.

Everything worked on it: central locking and all 4 electric windows, the headlight switch was needing replaced IIRC, the return spring was broken or missing.

Tyres are of indeterminate age.

That's it - it should prove a solid base for a restoration (that was my plan) so good luck.

PhilGreaves · Post by **PhilGreaves** » Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:56 am

ha ha.

Well Graeme i've been in contact with the James for a little over a month. He wasnt really sure if he was selling it at first as it was comftable and economical for comuting/occasional use...then the carb went! Then everything moved quickly....

Well join the club i thought the sills were ok too but our mechanic thinks not. Well im sure any problems are no reflection on your skills

But i cant really say much else because i havent seen it.

I don't think it was sorned just used very little. I guess thats whats destroyed the sills.

Im not sure i follow- why shouldnt i throw out the rear seat? It wont be of use to anyone will it?

Well it just may be thats what he meant by 'new' battery?

As you did have big plans for it its only fair and right to finish what you started, so feel free to come round and start work whenever you want. Is Thursday ok for you?

..when its back from Holmfirth.

Thanks for the head up over the FDV, ill mention it to the garage- theyre going to do he cam and a service. Guess id better change the tank..or the carb..or both....

What do you make of the carb problem Graeme? My garage gave me a quote of £250 something. And also where would you go to get sills?

hmm ill pm david then otherwise itll be a scrap job although i know john Greaves (no relation!) had some...i wonder what happened to them....

Im afraid the air horn is at the bottom of the list...

But i could pop to Bradford and get one.

First up is cam, then sills, then doors, then tank/carb. See not so bad when you break it down into a plan.....

toddao · Post by **toddao** » Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:31 am

I would wager that the sills are damaged around the jacking points due to incautious jacking and age. I've seen this on many old BXs including my own. As for where to find them.. I've never seen any offered for sale anywhere, though undoubtedly there are a few out there lurking unwanted in storerooms.

scarecrow · Post by **scarecrow** » Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:32 am

Hi Phil

This is where my Carb. and distributor parts are being sourced from:

http://www.gowerlee.dircon.co.uk/

I'd suggest that £250 sounds reasonable for a new Carb. and fitting (for my 14 a Solex is around £180 unfitted).

Cheers
Steve

kermit the frog · Post by **kermit the frog** » Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:14 am

Hi Phil
I hope you have checked out the link that Mat put on earlier as i have it shows just how much attention your new arrival has already had.
I think the rest of the repairs are reasonably easy.
Good luck in sourcing the bit's you need i am sure they are out there somewhere.
Just keep this one alive for future enjoyment.

Regards Kermit (another Phil)

Aerodynamica · Post by **Aerodynamica** » Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:03 pm

What do you make of the carb problem Graeme? My garage gave me a quote of £250 something. And also where would you go to get sills?

Don't know - it ran fine on petrol when I had it - remember I drove this car sight unseen from Cambourne in Cornwall all the way to Glasgow without even a cough. Then, I never used it on petrol at all - you can start up on gas from cold - just prime the manifold first.

I do wonder though - why spend so much money? it's only a carburetor. You could just rebuild it with new gaskets and diaphragms from the carb guy down in kent. (I'd need to find the contact) also, check that it's actually getting petrol to the carb - it is not impossible for one of the two brass one way valves fitted to stick internally. Also check the blue petrol shut off valve is working when the 'petrol' position is selected on the LPG switch thing.

Don't know where to get sills sorry. Might have to get these made up or Cortina ones adapted or something.

As for the rear seat: eh? The answer is that you don't throw out stuff that's in good condition!

Thanks for the head up over the FDV, ill mention it to the garage- theyre going to do he cam and a service

I wouldn't bother - they will not know how to fix it (if there's anything to fix) Service wise, this car needs its oil changed and that's it - any other work carried out for a 'service' is a waste of money as it's only traveled about 1500 miles since James bought it. Also, you could change the oil yourself.

Cambelt - upgrade the gas tank/relocate it - fit the two other doors (driver side) and respray it and you'll have done what I was going to do this year.

The performance is limited on LPG on this car under certain atmospheric conditions as the gas mixer is too small (it was from an Astra) so I'd contact 'Tinley tech' the LPG supplier and see about getting a better mixer. Don't remove the duct tape fixed over the internal ports as it draws too much air to run without them covered (you'll see when you get the car)

The rear arm bearings seemed OK when I had it but there's no sign of them being done before. Also, I think the pulley for the hydraulic pump belt made a noise sometimes.

And! now that I think of it - a new exhaust rear box was fitted - last thing I did but it is not correctly placed - it's at the wrong angle and sits a little too low - cure: unfasten two pipe clamps - reposition it - joining paste and retighten - I ran out of time as I was living down in Ashford and came back up here to sell the car to James quickly and return to Middlesex.

Anyway, any question just ask as I became quite familiar with the car.

Incidentally, I think I'm officially out of the BX circle now and hence might want to move on some of my BX spares to anyone. Not much but I have a HP pump, 2 front suspension struts, door lock mechanisms for the 2 nearside doors, distributor parts and that is it - any interest from anyone just holler.

PhilGreaves · Post by **PhilGreaves** » Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:16 pm

Thanks for the warm welcome Kermitt. Don't worry we are keeping this one! It will make it to 2012 (positive thinking)

I wasnt necessarily going to spend that much money on the carb i just wanted to see what people thought. I noticed that Scarecrow/steve thought it reasonable. Thanks very much for the advice Graeme and the offer of more question answering!!

On the carb, i suppose logically it was the MoT Garage who failed it and i know nothing about them (James took it there) so it could yet be an easy fix. They did fix/reattatch the exhaust though. Im also not sure how far the mechanic looked into the carb either as he seemed to be more concerned with rust etc.

hmm yeah fabrication/adaption is what i was thinking. Im going to ask my mate for advice on this and hopefully he can advise on the carb as he's very experienced at restorations. Unfortunately he's away for the weekend at Cobham Bus Rally searching for parts himself!

What exactly do you mean when you say its (FDV) isnt working properly? Heavy steering or something more sinister?

I had an lpg garage at Thirsk recommended to me so i think ill use them for the tank (i was thinking a cylindrical one and hopefully closer to the seats/back of boot) and i guess a 'mixer' as well. I presume you too were thinking of a cylindrical tank?

You dont think that the extra weight of the lpg (lpg fuel+lpg tank) would cause problems for the rear arm bearings do you? I know that hydraulic Cits can take a lot of weight but the weight would be permanently there. (yeah i know a hypothetical question).

When i go see it on wednesday is there anything i should specifically look out for?

Thanks for the advice/warm welcome everyone!!