Stranded BX auto

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Tim Leech
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Stranded BX auto

Post by Tim Leech »

I parked up my 19TZI auto after the national at my mums where it was running well, I know the starter has been getting a wee bit tired so it was on a list of jobs to do. It seems the few weeks dormant have killed it off. I went to start it today, it clicked a few times then nowt, the new battery has plenty of power. I had a similar problem with an old 19GTI which when a new starter was fitted all was well.

Here is the problem, its an auto so I cant push start it, it has A/C so there lots of extra pipes in the way, so how do I change the starter? On the GTi I removed the bumper rad etc and did it that way, but I'm not sure I can get at it this time due to all the A/C and auto box gubbins.

The relay is clicking in the fuse box, I have exchanged that with no change.

Help!
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ken newbold
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Post by ken newbold »

Are you certain it's the starter :?

Our old BX auto did this all the time we had it. The day before we sold it I found a relay under the air filter box, it looked like it was falling apart so I swapped it for a "new" one and the fault went away :D

Our current BX auto has just started doing the same :( sometimes :?
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Post by CitroXim »

ken newbold wrote:Are you certain it's the starter :?
Indeed, a good point Ken!

Tim, the auto has additional circuitry to inhibit starting except when the 'box is in P or N.

the V6 Xantia shows exactly the same symptoms as you have and it's caused by high resistance between the ignition switch and the starter solenoid via two inhibit relays.

We do a big mod on it to overcome the problem. It's a must-do. Basically, the mod uses a relay operated by the ignition switch to feed the starter solenoid directly from a good source of current without passing it through the ignition switch or inhibit relays directly. Don't forget the solenoid takes about 20A and voltage drops anywhere will soon kill it.

On the V6 a clicky starter will soon burn out the solenoid contact.

If you can supply me a circuit, I can indicate how to do it.

meanwhile, here's a link to the modification as applied to the Xantia V6. You may be able to pick the bones out of it for your BX.

Speak to me about it at CXM at the weekend Tim...
Jim

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Jaba
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Post by Jaba »

Tim, if you decide to swap out the starter then the easiest way on these models is to remove the throttle housing and bring the starter out upwards.
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Post by Tim Leech »

Thanks guys, I will take the booster pack home tonight to make sure before I take it apart, so theres a relay under the airfilter then?
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Post by CitroXim »

Jaba wrote:Tim, if you decide to swap out the starter then the easiest way on these models is to remove the throttle housing and bring the starter out upwards.
Ahh! That brings back memories of my old 205GTi. We used to debate at length the easiest method of removing the starter and the consensus was that out through the space vacated by the throttle body was the best.

You need girly hands though...
Jim

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Post by mat_fenwick »

205 with a 16v engine is even worse - it's inlet manifold or radiator off...
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Post by Tim Leech »

Well I went over with jump starter pack, tools and a large hammer, and it started first time, and did so 10 time after that! :roll:
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Post by CitroXim »

Roverman wrote:Well I went over with jump starter pack, tools and a large hammer, and it started first time, and did so 10 time after that! :roll:
Ignition switch and inhibit relay wiring then :) The battery only needs to be a tad under par and the resistance is just enough to stop a start.

Try measuring the voltage at the starter solenoid terminal for a conclusive check Tim.
Jim

'98 Xantia 1.9TD in Red - Gabriel the Bus...
'96 Xantia Activa in Red - My favourite toy...
'07 Pug 207 in Blue - The Deathtrap...
'15 Giant Defy Bike in Blue - Daily rider...
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Post by Dollywobbler »

Roverman wrote:Well I went over with jump starter pack, tools and a large hammer, and it started first time, and did so 10 time after that! :roll:
Maybe it was scared into working by the hammer...
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Post by CitroXim »

I'd be scared if I saw Tim approaching with a hammer....

Mind you, on a 16 a hammer is not really very useful as the starter motor is almost inaccessible for a good old traditional thump..

I had an iffy starter on my 205 GTi for a time (the infamous brown plug) and it always refused to start outside my kid's school.

I used to get a gang of Year 6s to bump start me. They loved it. It was just my kids who were embarrassed that their dad came in a car that wouldn't start...

Speaking of the brown connector in a 205GTi, has the BX16 got one too? In the 205 it's a connector that lives down by the bellhousing and gets covered in 7 colours of crap over the years and introduces all sorts of high resistances as it slowly corrodes away. One major thing it carries is the starter solenoid feed.

That's worth a check Tim, if indeed the BX has such a thing...
Jim

'98 Xantia 1.9TD in Red - Gabriel the Bus...
'96 Xantia Activa in Red - My favourite toy...
'07 Pug 207 in Blue - The Deathtrap...
'15 Giant Defy Bike in Blue - Daily rider...
'16 Giant TCR Bike in Black/Lime Green - Fine weather only...
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Post by scarecrow »

The roof of my Dyane shredded in a Scottish storm whilst I was taking a bunch of kids to school - and it gave them all a damn good thrashing for most of the 15 mile journey. They loved it.

My sister's kids however used to hide on the floor of the Dyane if I was deputised to collect them. I used to pull up alongside their mates and point them out on the floor of the car.

I seem to remember having a solid metal bar for reaching an inaccessible starter motor...

Oh, happy days :wink:
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Tim Leech
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Post by Tim Leech »

CitroXim wrote:
Roverman wrote:Well I went over with jump starter pack, tools and a large hammer, and it started first time, and did so 10 time after that! :roll:
Ignition switch and inhibit relay wiring then :) The battery only needs to be a tad under par and the resistance is just enough to stop a start.

Try measuring the voltage at the starter solenoid terminal for a conclusive check Tim.
Ey what? ok so if your going to stratford well vounteered lol!
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Post by Way2go »

Roverman wrote:Well I went over with jump starter pack, tools and a large hammer, and it started first time, and did so 10 time after that! :roll:
It also can be the battery at the end of it's life. I had the occasional problem similar to this over a few months and thought it must be the starter solenoid...........but then the battery gave up entirely and upon replacement of just the battery not only does the starter spin faster, the headlights are significantly brighter. :D

Can't complain about the last battery though, it gave good service for 7+ years and never needed an external charge over its lifetime. :D
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Tim Leech
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Post by Tim Leech »

Way2go wrote:
Roverman wrote:Well I went over with jump starter pack, tools and a large hammer, and it started first time, and did so 10 time after that! :roll:
It also can be the battery at the end of it's life. I had the occasional problem similar to this over a few months and thought it must be the starter solenoid...........but then the battery gave up entirely and upon replacement of just the battery not only does the starter spin faster, the headlights are significantly brighter. :D

Can't complain about the last battery though, it gave good service for 7+ years and never needed an external charge over its lifetime. :D
battery was new a couple of months ago, and is a heavy duty BX diesel battery and a good quality at that.
Lots of Motors, mostly semi broken....
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