TÜV today... fail

toddao · Post by **toddao** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:47 pm

I took the yellow break for it's TÜV (MOT) today and it failed mostly on really absurd stuff :

- one of the rear number plate lights wasn't working
- small cracks on one of the tyres
- one head-light pointing too far down
- they asked me for the 'ABE' identification papers for the towbar - basically TÜV proof that the towbar is specified for the BX!

( I think I've got one somewhere)

but the one bad thing: 'serious oil leak'

It's not oil but transmission fluid. I changed the clutch just before it was laid up two years ago and it was all tight.
It's pissing out. I think it's perhaps one of the drive shaft seals? I disturbed one of the driveshafts while I was re-building the suspension in March or something and just stuck it back in with a fluid top-up. I reckon that's it..

Any ideas as to what else might be leaking? 1.9D n/a

I've got the red number plates til Friday and I've got to get back to TÜV by then.

Cheers

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:10 pm

If it's the long driveshaft, have you done up the hockey stick shaped bolts that hold the intermediate bearing in place? I've forgotten once and the movement of the shaft mean the seal wasn't contacting the correct part of the shaft.

Kitch · Post by **Kitch** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:22 pm

What he said ^^

If it\'s definately gearbox oil, theres not alot else it can be. Not unless it\'s sneezing out of the breather at the top, or has cracked it\'s case!

TB2 · Post by **TB2** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:48 pm

Todd, if you're going to open up the clutch again or if you're doing any other major work, please let me know. I bet I could learn a thing or two and I could always hand you some spanners or whatever

Fun times at the Tüv, isn't it...

toddao · Post by **toddao** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:52 pm

Thanks guys! I just went and had a look under it, cleaned up the whole diff area and went for a drive then had another look - nothing. I'll go for a longer drive tomorrow and look again.

I didn't actually touch the intermediate bearing, it just slipped out a 'bit' when it fell off the support that was holding it out of the way while I was doing bearings/drop-links etc.

I'm going to drive to the TÜV, go round the corner, put it on ramps and clean the whole area. The tow-bar stuff is absolute madness though. It was a young guy testing me and he didn't notice the Mexican suspension going up and down at random moments!

But some older jobsworth came down and pointed to the tow-bar! They didn't have a clue about BXs.

Apart from that it drives like dream, floats along nicely on its born again suspension. Legality is the only problem!

toddao · Post by **toddao** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:50 am

I went for a small drive this morning to a local lake and had a look underneath quickly. Looking from the front : the fluid is coming from the top right hand side of the gearbox in the approx area of the filler cap, but doesn't appear to be coming from there. Bit of a mystery. If I'd filled the gearbox with too much fluid would it come out here?

I couldn't investigate further as I had the kids with me - have to wait til this arvo.

Here's a pic of my daughter Sovay at said lake this morning. Makes a change from photos of oily things!

rmattila · Post by **rmattila** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:33 pm

I once had a mysterious leak of gearbox oil, which was difficult to locate until the clutch started slipping. Most probable cause was that the seal had frozen around the gearbox main shaft on some -30 °C morning and got torn when the shaft started to rotate.

This leakage route is possible also as a consequence of overfilling of the gearbox: oil leaks through the lip seals and the rotating clutch throws it all over the clutch housing, where it then finds its way out.

toddao · Post by **toddao** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:45 pm

Thanks Riku. I'm hoping that it is over-filled and that it will stop once it's emptied itself a bit. Not very technical but I don't know where to apply a spanner.
At least it's not the diff end leaking. I've had enough of oily fingers for the moment. I caught myself looking at used Xsara Picassos this morning, the wife has been very patient..

KevR · Post by **KevR** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:20 pm

If it's leaking over the clutch, then you don't want to be waiting for it to empty itself out! Can't you just remove the filler/level plug and have a look - if it's over-filled, it'll pour back out, if not, it won't...

toddao · Post by **toddao** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:55 pm

I went to a friend's garage today for ten minutes and he put it up on the lift for an inspection. He thought it was LHM, not transmission fluid, coming from somewhere under the air filter. He also said the gearbox wouldn't leak from the top. I hadn't thought it was LHM because it looks almost clear to black ( after running off the engine) but he reckons it's green. I'm still not convinced.

So I took off the air filter back at the yard and inspected. There is a union where two sections have been joined in the main LHM pipe to pump ( the only pipe I didn't change) which looked as though it was weeping so I changed the whole pipe for one off the wrecker TRD. Then I went for a drive and it leaks in exactly the same way, appearing to come from 'up' somewhere under the air filter and running onto the gearbox.

I can't see anything leaking while it's idling - only under load does it weep. Any thoughts BXperts?

Cheers

rmattila · Post by **rmattila** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:54 pm

Gearbox oil you certainly recognize from the foul smell - like something you might find on your doorstep after a visit of a particularly motivated male cat. Difficult to confuse with the gentle, pleasant, almost springy bouquet of a freshly-changed (as it always should be) LHM.

Why don't you take your camera out and get a few snaps of the suspected leakage area and see if someone here could get something out of them - otherwise it's really hard to tell.

As to what KevR said - I 100 % agree. If it's gearbox oil leaking over the clutch, I would not wait until it fouls the clutch (which can occur rather fast if oil gets on the friction surfaces). And it's really quick to check by opening the level cap and watching if something comes out.

Dollywobbler · Post by **Dollywobbler** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:17 pm

rmattila wrote:Gearbox oil you certainly recognize from the foul smell.

This is an entirely sensible and correct point! Gearbox oil STINKS. LHM doesn't. I know that 2CV gearboxes will leak oil if over-filled. Easily done.

toddao · Post by **toddao** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:03 am

Riku wrote

the gentle, pleasant, almost springy bouquet of a freshly-changed (as it always should be) LHM.

can also be used as aftershave?

I know what you mean. From that reckoning it is LHM. It almost has a cinnamon fragrance! It should be unforgettable after I practically had a shower in the stuff when the doseur pumped out a 2 litre fountain back in April.

I'm not worried about clutch contamination as the leak is coming from somewhere around the other end of the gearbox: front/top/right

When I get off later I'm going to start the hunt again - take off the airfilter, clean up the area and rev the old girl til she starts weeping. Two days left to get to the TÜV.

The tyres are sorted, though one's already gone flat on me after being
swapped yesterday by the local tyre eccentric in his barn - I think the valve's cactus.

The second number plate light is working. I had to remove the plastic lining from the boot door to access then just swapped the bulbs - typically Citroen fix.

rmattila · Post by **rmattila** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:39 am

toddao wrote:From that reckoning it is LHM.

I once had a small pinhole leak in the main LHM artery from the HP pump to the flow distributor valve, caused by physical contact with improperly fixed electric engine heater cable (location visible in the center of that picture). It injected a small spray of LHM to the support bar of the HP pump, from where it dropped to the top of the gearbox and leaked to the ground. Was kind of difficult to locate, since it only sprayed when the accumulator sphere was charging, and the car had very limited leak-through when idling.

The leak is not always that clearly visible.

toddao · Post by **toddao** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:57 pm

I've sorted the leak. It was transmission fluid leaking out of the reversing light switch that sticks out of the gearbox.. at the top, right under the airfilter box.
I took it out and re-fitted with a new copper ring and the gear selection indicator - right above it - received a new plastic cover courtesy of the breaker TRD. I just went for a run and it appears to have stopped.

Then I went back to the tyre barn, he found a hole in the tyre sidewall so I had two part- worn Pirellis fitted. Ready for TÜV Part II tomorrow..