GT mediated Awesomeness

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Jaba
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by Jaba »

Fitting an EFI might seem a simple solution but the reality is that it is a much more complex way of supplying petrol to the cylinders and inevitably injection systems go wrong as well. We have had several guys on here through the years with problems with their monopoint injections systems playing up asking for help but none was forthcoming because those models were never sold here and whilst there was much wisdom available there is and was no experience.
Carbs are such straightforward devices, in theory anyway. The throttle flap opens and fuel is sucked into the engine - what could possibly go wrong [-o< This is where I should give a check list but it is decades since I had a carb engined car, a 1.6 Scirocco actually a super little runaround with a satisfying power surge when the second choke opened.
So here are some random ideas for you which may or most likely may not help you:
Clean waterless petrol being supplied?
Any debris or water in the float chamber?
Some people gave up on their autochokes and fitted a manual conversion
Float valves not opening/closing properly
Fuel pump misbehaving intermittently and/or fuel filter blocking or restricted

Advance/retard - if this is playing up the only symptom is faltering at small throttle openings. It can be overcome by advancing the ignition 2 or a few degrees. Not ideal but it worked for me.

Bye for now, Gewurztraminer calling strongly.
The Joy of BX with just one Citroën BX to my name now. Will I sing Bye Bye to my GTI or will it be Till death us do part.
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panky
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by panky »

I might be committing sacrilege for even suggesting this but I carried out SU conversions on both my Commers ditching the hopeless Zenith carbs - the difference was night and day. I've often wondered if a BX manifold could be modified to take an SU. An 1 3/4" HIF44 is plenty for the 1725 Commer engines so may be OK for a 1.9 BX or maybe go to a 2" SU. Dead simple and reliable - don't hate me.
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Jugostran
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by Jugostran »

panky wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2024 11:23 pm I might be committing sacrilege for even suggesting this but I carried out SU conversions on both my Commers ditching the hopeless Zenith carbs - the difference was night and day. I've often wondered if a BX manifold could be modified to take an SU. An 1 3/4" HIF44 is plenty for the 1725 Commer engines so may be OK for a 1.9 BX or maybe go to a 2" SU. Dead simple and reliable - don't hate me.
If EFI really is something you're interested in, you could possibly salvage the EFI system from a 16 or 19 TRI. The aforementioned models are essentially fuel injected GTs anyway (with the Ph2 19 TRS essentially being a GT in terms of mechanics).
Now, getting the carb sorted should probably be easier. It sounds like both of us have problems with the autochoke engaging mid-drive. Your carb and autochoke are basically new as far as I've gathered. Is the cooling system also renewed? I think the issues I'm having is because of the coolant system being dirty. I'd imagine that giving it a superflush and then refilling with the correct coolant would do wonders. Manual choke conversions aren't something I'm considering. I do not want to date the BX even more hah.
Proudly daily driving a 1989 BX 16 TRS since 2021

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panky
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by panky »

I'm not considering any carb swap I just put it forward as an 'out there' possibility as it worked well on my other applications. I'm lucky enough to have a properly working carb, the throttle cable sometimes sticks a little when you floor it so something to investigate.
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Jugostran
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by Jugostran »

panky wrote: Mon Jan 15, 2024 2:34 pm I'm not considering any carb swap I just put it forward as an 'out there' possibility as it worked well on my other applications. I'm lucky enough to have a properly working carb, the throttle cable sometimes sticks a little when you floor it so something to investigate.
I also have the throttle cable issue on mine.
Also, my previous post may seem a bit strange, and that's because I confused you and saintjamesy89 (since you two own two basically identical cars). The carb on my 16 TRS is the same as on your GTs, and saintjamesy89 is having trouble with his just like I am with mine. Sorry about that hah.
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saintjamesy89
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by saintjamesy89 »

Lots of interesting replies - thanks guys. I envy your Gewürztraminer John! Jugostran, I have the same thing with my cold starts, it usually stalls almost straight away but on a restart it is fine, although I find if the car is used a few days in a row this doesn't happen, interestingly my coolant is due a change.

Yes - my carb was brand brand new last year.

I've had a fairly in-depth look into injection November/December gone, I even planned and priced up a LPT turbo application, but I think this is a bit too far for the way things are right now - I'd need to change gearboxes, clutch and try and fit an intercooler in the front bumper as well as all the other stuff.

I stumbled upon a Megajolt (MJ) system last year that came off of a 205 GTI that had been converted to twin carbs, it came with everything - toothed timing disc that bolts to the the crank pulley, CPS with bracket, 205 engine loom modified for the MJ, Ford EDIS module, distributorless ignition coil, TPS and MAP sensors, thermostat housing (for CTS and coil mounting) and of course the MJ unit itself. It was very reasonably priced, so I just bought it! What I really want is a bit more torque (+/-power), ease of driving and economy. The easiest way to do that would of course be to get a different car, but that isn't why we're all here is it! As circumstances would have it, the GT is my daily at the moment and although I usually only drive to commute for 2 or 3 days a week at most, I'd like to improve and modernise it slightly.

I feel capable enough to fit the parts, the ECU comes with an initial start map which will need setting up properly, emerald do this with their rolling road including the different maps one can switch between. My plan for N/A EFI:

-Emerald ECU, which has an attractive switchable map feature, e.g. a power map and an economy map
-Distributorless 205 GTI thermostat housing for the correct ECU Coolant temperature sensor facility and coil mount for a wasted spark system.
-Injection downpipe for the lambda sensor (need a new downpipe anyway, mine is holy)
-Toothed crank wheel that bolts onto the crank pulley
-CPS and bracket
-Emerald air temp sensor (easy to retrofit into an induction pipe somewhere)
-Electric fuel pump (BX/205)
-205 GTI Inlet manifold (with fuel rail, throttle body, TPS and FPR)
-Possibly an injection BX air filter box etc depending on space
-Possibly even fit a 130bhp DKZ 205 cylinder head and cam (although as the pistons on the carb engines have no dish and other XU9 engines do, the compression ratio might be quite high and need the ignition retarding in certain circumstances).

OR I could just get the carb sorted, perhaps with an electronic fuel pump, FPR and the MJ for a bit more modernity. I really like this car and foresee keeping it.
I'm not a Saint, or a James, but a Tom Saint-James!

Mes voitures:
1985 Citroen BX19 GT
1988 Volvo 740 2.0 GL Hearse
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saintjamesy89
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by saintjamesy89 »

The reason for the Peugeot 205 stuff, injected BX's use a round intake port in their heads, whereas injected 205's stick with the cathedral shape ports.
I'm not a Saint, or a James, but a Tom Saint-James!

Mes voitures:
1985 Citroen BX19 GT
1988 Volvo 740 2.0 GL Hearse
2006 Lexus RX 400h SE hybrid
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Jugostran
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by Jugostran »

saintjamesy89 wrote: Mon Jan 15, 2024 10:29 pm Lots of interesting replies - thanks guys. I envy your Gewürztraminer John! Jugostran, I have the same thing with my cold starts, it usually stalls almost straight away but on a restart it is fine, although I find if the car is used a few days in a row this doesn't happen, interestingly my coolant is due a change.

Yes - my carb was brand brand new last year.

I've had a fairly in-depth look into injection November/December gone, I even planned and priced up a LPT turbo application, but I think this is a bit too far for the way things are right now - I'd need to change gearboxes, clutch and try and fit an intercooler in the front bumper as well as all the other stuff.

I stumbled upon a Megajolt (MJ) system last year that came off of a 205 GTI that had been converted to twin carbs, it came with everything - toothed timing disc that bolts to the the crank pulley, CPS with bracket, 205 engine loom modified for the MJ, Ford EDIS module, distributorless ignition coil, TPS and MAP sensors, thermostat housing (for CTS and coil mounting) and of course the MJ unit itself. It was very reasonably priced, so I just bought it! What I really want is a bit more torque (+/-power), ease of driving and economy. The easiest way to do that would of course be to get a different car, but that isn't why we're all here is it! As circumstances would have it, the GT is my daily at the moment and although I usually only drive to commute for 2 or 3 days a week at most, I'd like to improve and modernise it slightly.

I feel capable enough to fit the parts, the ECU comes with an initial start map which will need setting up properly, emerald do this with their rolling road including the different maps one can switch between. My plan for N/A EFI:

-Emerald ECU, which has an attractive switchable map feature, e.g. a power map and an economy map
-Distributorless 205 GTI thermostat housing for the correct ECU Coolant temperature sensor facility and coil mount for a wasted spark system.
-Injection downpipe for the lambda sensor (need a new downpipe anyway, mine is holy)
-Toothed crank wheel that bolts onto the crank pulley
-CPS and bracket
-Emerald air temp sensor (easy to retrofit into an induction pipe somewhere)
-Electric fuel pump (BX/205)
-205 GTI Inlet manifold (with fuel rail, throttle body, TPS and FPR)
-Possibly an injection BX air filter box etc depending on space
-Possibly even fit a 130bhp DKZ 205 cylinder head and cam (although as the pistons on the carb engines have no dish and other XU9 engines do, the compression ratio might be quite high and need the ignition retarding in certain circumstances).

OR I could just get the carb sorted, perhaps with an electronic fuel pump, FPR and the MJ for a bit more modernity. I really like this car and foresee keeping it.
Thank you for the insight. If you hop on over to my BX blog, you can see that fitting EFI is definitely beyond the scope of things actually possible where I live. My BX is barely hanging on as is, and even then is considered a pristine example. The issue with the carb for me is that it did work correctly after it was rebuilt! The first big trip I did (130 km) resulted in a fuel economy of about 7.5 open road (110 km/h). It also felt really quick. But then as time went on it just got gradually worse. I have a picture from the summer where the fuel gauge was on the line after the halfway point and it read 450 km on the trip measuring thing. I have never had such economy after that. It just went to shit, and I'm trying to figure out why.
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mat_fenwick
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by mat_fenwick »

Something that I've only just come across which may be worth a check - my wife has bought a Peugeot 205 and on checking it over I discovered that the (new looking) distributor cap was not a good fit. The slot which dictates the position had been moulded too wide so the whole cap was free to rotate a few degrees and hence shift the ignition timing at random. I wonder if there's a few aftermarket caps like that...
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saintjamesy89
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by saintjamesy89 »

That's a good shout Mat, thanks - I'll have a look 👍

I sucked on the distributor vacuum line the other day, I had to suck very hard but there was a rnoticeable change in engine note - as in it got quite rattly! So I assume the advance works at least.
I'm not a Saint, or a James, but a Tom Saint-James!

Mes voitures:
1985 Citroen BX19 GT
1988 Volvo 740 2.0 GL Hearse
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saintjamesy89
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1991 Saab 900 16v convertible
2007 Lexus RX 400h SE
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by saintjamesy89 »

I'm not a Saint, or a James, but a Tom Saint-James!

Mes voitures:
1985 Citroen BX19 GT
1988 Volvo 740 2.0 GL Hearse
2006 Lexus RX 400h SE hybrid
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Dave_16v
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by Dave_16v »

It's to short 😂
Prefer it to the Lamborghini, like Signor Gandini!

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saintjamesy89
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2007 Lexus RX 400h SE
x 129

Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by saintjamesy89 »

Dave_16v wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2024 11:05 am It's to short 😂
I can do a proper start up if you like the next time we have some decent cold weather, I was a little late for work in this video so had to focus on scraping the ice off and getting on the road!
I'm not a Saint, or a James, but a Tom Saint-James!

Mes voitures:
1985 Citroen BX19 GT
1988 Volvo 740 2.0 GL Hearse
2006 Lexus RX 400h SE hybrid
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by Dave_16v »

saintjamesy89 wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2024 1:17 pm
Dave_16v wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2024 11:05 am It's to short 😂
I can do a proper start up if you like the next time we have some decent cold weather, I was a little late for work in this video so had to focus on scraping the ice off and getting on the road!
LOL,

I don't mind seeing it but don't feel under pressure. There are those that like seeing plumes, some might not be so interested. I probably get it from watching two strokes firing up for a while. 😂

Either way, I enjoyed it 👍
Prefer it to the Lamborghini, like Signor Gandini!

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panky
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by panky »

I'm with you on that. I just watched a short vid on Instagram of Barry Sheen's Suzuki TR 500 start up :D

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