Engine swap?

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Tinkley
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Engine swap?

Post by Tinkley »

Hi fellow BX'ers
I have 2 Athenas, one a runner, one sadly SORN'ed as some young lady pulled out on me a few years
ago - ouch!!!. The runner (which I bought from a guy off this forum) has a failing clutch release bearing, at least the frequent adjustment, non freeing clutch, squeaky noises suggest. It has the OE
engine just over 155k (clutch changed at 90k) which leaks and burns a bit of oil. The non runner has a
VEGE recon having done 62k (new LUK clutch and release bearing put when fitted) and it was sweet,
up to over 50 mpg on a long run. The runners gearbox has always been sweet, the other was a rough change when I bought it but after 10-15k was sweet.

Question is do I swap engines or just do the clutch on the old one? Unfortunately I don't have the tools/hoist etc to do it myself but the garage is only 50 meters away. I can strip off all the bits
except drive shafts. I will also have to tow the non runner up to the garage for engine removal, but
don't see this as a real problem. I have obtained a LUK clutch kit (78 quid inc) offside drive shaft, driveshaft seals, etc etc so other than a new exhaust cone gasket don't think there is much more I need to change them over (fluids as well of course).

What are your thoughts? I will have to pay the labour but wish to minimise that and maximise the quality of the end result. Based on the Hants/Surrey border and wishing to keep the old BX running.
Having done 3k in an 09 C4, I much prefer the BX to actually drive!! IMHO the BX is a Classic Citroen, as good (in fact better) than the DS, just hope one day Citroen truly innovate again then maybe Andre would smile again!.

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JayW
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Re: Engine swap?

Post by JayW »

I'd suggest that if you're going to the trouble of removing the gearbox with the engine in situ to do the clutch then it really isn't a huge amount of additional stress to remove the lot.

Getting the gearbox back in on it's own can frequently be a pig and much more time consuming than initially expected. So realistically removing the engine is better value for money, especially if you're going to be refitting a better one.
I have zero patience for your tedium.

Tinkley
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Re: Engine swap?

Post by Tinkley »

Thanks JayW. I suspect from your reply that the best solution would be remove whole lot ie engine/transmission from runner and same from other. Split newer engine and replace clutch anyway
because even with only 62k (no adjustment) it will have some wear. Then pop newer unit and same
transmission but replaced clutch stuff back in. If its easier to split transmission when out the car and keep as a unit for packaging, this would help. This should leave only drive shaft connections as the final
assembly (excluding all the speedo/clutch cable etc etc) to hook up the front wheels. I will be ensuring new boots on the shafts.
BTW West Heath do fixed price clutch change for £399 ... don't say for BX though - parts labour VAT etc!!.
Xsara though with same BE3 gearbox....

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mat_fenwick
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Re: Engine swap?

Post by mat_fenwick »

JayW wrote:Getting the gearbox back in on it's own can frequently be a pig and much more time consuming than initially expected.
..that_

Fine if it slides in straight away but often you're jiggling for ages trying to get everything to line up. Or is that just me? I would have thought the difference in labour charges between a clutch change and engine swap would be outweighed by the benefits of having a fresher engine.

£399 for a clutch change? :shock: Bring it up here and I'll swap the engines for half that, and give you a cup of tea into the bargain!

Welcome to the forum anyway :)
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JayW
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Re: Engine swap?

Post by JayW »

It's not just you Mat, i've only ever been lucky enough to have one slide straight on, the rest have always been arm-tiringly awkward.

It's not an issue of things not being correctly aligned (clutch plate etc), more the awkward space & angle of attack!

But, of course, i'm sure some star will step in and tell us how they never have an issue... ;)
I have zero patience for your tedium.

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JayW
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Re: Engine swap?

Post by JayW »

Tinkley wrote:BTW West Heath do fixed price clutch change for £399
I missed this bit first time round.

I'd genuinely give West Heath a miss, i'd be very surprised if they'll take the BX in for a job like that and even if they do their service has been lousy for years. A reputable local independant should do a clutch change for around £200 labour if you can find one that'll touch a BX.

But i'd still go down the complete swap route for VFM and longevity.

Wherabouts are you? Aldershot, Fleet, Farnborough?
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Tinkley
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Re: Engine swap?

Post by Tinkley »

Hi all and JayW
I'm actually in Headley Down. IMHO LMC Bordon are utterly useless, West Heath somewhat better and even stocked BX parts for a long time. They have also been very helpful, to be fair for soucing parts.
Unfortunately the DS boys over at Kingsley (one RD 19 with over 517K on it) have unfortunately got rid
of their stock of BXs'.

I have a guy down my sailing club who has a fair bit of kit and runs a Mini Moke (yellow) and may well
have the kit to DIY it. He has offered the 35mm socket for the hub nut. Now if he has the engine hoist.... Anyway I get on very well with him and we both follow all the Moto GP 2 3 etc current and ex bikers. I've stripped quite a few bike engines for various faults and they have been fine afterwards - Morini 31/2 (rebuild O/size pistons etc), Gilera NordWest (selector forks) so the mechanics are not too much of a problem just the different scale. I mean, I could drop the Morini engine in 20 min and lift by hand - a clutch was done in situ in 10 min. Gilera was light too.

Last year I got PTS Developments to do the wishbone bushes ie hacksaw through the pin now no longer available in the UK (listed still in France). They know what they are doing as does Andy based in Ripley/St Johns's Woking. Might well try it over a few days myself yet with a little asssistance.

Thanks for your useful comments.

Mothman

Re: Engine swap?

Post by Mothman »

Tinkley wrote:Hi all and JayW
I'm actually in Headley Down. IMHO LMC Bordon are utterly useless, West Heath somewhat better and even stocked BX parts for a long time. They have also been very helpful, to be fair for soucing parts.
Unfortunately the DS boys over at Kingsley (one RD 19 with over 517K on it) have unfortunately got rid
of their stock of BXs'.

I have a guy down my sailing club who has a fair bit of kit and runs a Mini Moke (yellow) and may well
have the kit to DIY it. He has offered the 35mm socket for the hub nut. Now if he has the engine hoist.... Anyway I get on very well with him and we both follow all the Moto GP 2 3 etc current and ex bikers. I've stripped quite a few bike engines for various faults and they have been fine afterwards - Morini 31/2 (rebuild O/size pistons etc), Gilera NordWest (selector forks) so the mechanics are not too much of a problem just the different scale. I mean, I could drop the Morini engine in 20 min and lift by hand - a clutch was done in situ in 10 min. Gilera was light too.

Last year I got PTS Developments to do the wishbone bushes ie hacksaw through the pin now no longer available in the UK (listed still in France). They know what they are doing as does Andy based in Ripley/St Johns's Woking. Might well try it over a few days myself yet with a little asssistance.

Thanks for your useful comments.
Me no understand what you are talking about?
Is it Citroen orientated?

Andy

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djoptix
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Re: Engine swap?

Post by djoptix »

Certainly sounds to me like the engine swap (with, as you say, new clutch at the time anyway) is the way to go. You'll be happier with it afterwards.
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Re: Engine swap?

Post by rutter123 »

hire an engine hoist they not that many £s for a few days, remove both engines/gbox, swapsy swapsy, clutch, gearbox, wotever, re-assemble as per requirements on the hoist, drop in yr good pre assembled eng/gbox, its all just spanners and easy stuff, do your cam belt while its out and gaskets, job done. if in doubt take photos during removal and label all electrics with masking tape, like for like swap should be pretty straightforward, driveshafts out, disconnect water pipes/exhaust/hyd pump/electrics/clutch/throttle /flow dist to one side, engine mounts off, lift out. removing the bonnet makes life easier too, good luck.
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Tinkley
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Re: Engine swap?

Post by Tinkley »

Update. I have managed to borrow an engine hoist and 35mm socket (wheel hubs), probably have most of the rest of the tools.

How high off the ground do I need to get it (the car) to undo all the underneath stuff ie exhaust/drive shaft/hydraulic pump etc?

The ground is roughish but moderately level (scalpings) and of course outside. I'm well inclined to swap it over myself as I have had quotes of 15 hrs to change the engine/transmission - at £60 ph you do the maths...
If its decent next weekend I'll get the good engine out at least and replace the clutch. Make a change not to have a unit burning and leaking oil! The 'good' engine was a real beauty to drive before and I'm sure it had all 94 claimed horses.
So anyone want a 1.6 B2C for rebuilding complete with gearbox and a clutch with only 62k on it? Solex carb which needs one part in the autochoke to be set up correctly.

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Re: Engine swap?

Post by rutter123 »

You prob dont want it too high, i find putting the front on ramps is enough to access everything, but i would check the lift height of your engine lift is adequate enough to give the clearance u need, dont forget the o/s driveshaft intermediate bolts. Best way i find is put car in high, drive up ramps, get some sturdy blocks or axle stands similar, i use railway sleeper offcuts, place these both sides under front subframe allowing about a 2 inch gap, then put car in low and it will settle on blocks, the front wheels should lift clear of the ramps, you can now remove wheels, driveshafts etc, ensure car is securely chocked and supported fully.
90 BX Tzd turbo 294k SORN undergoing major surgery
90 BX Tzd turbo estate 46k awaiting surgery
65 Peugeot Boxer Van the new workhorse
52 Toyota Rav4 180k Bulletproof Jap reliability