Trying to get the air-con working.

[bx petrol auto saloon]

Dear All,
I am trying to get my air-conditioning working
Firstly, the car has a problem in that the hot/cold control dial on the left hand side, is not functioning fully. The control dial will only rotate from cold, at say 1 o,clock around clockwise to about 7 o,clock. This I think is having two problems, in that apart from the car not getting fully hot it is also not getting to fully cold either. The reason for this is something I am also trying to sort out. It seems to be a routing of the cables/rods problem rather that a sticky heater tap problem.
Secondly, the reason I have mentioned this in the first paragraph, is that I am unsure whether the heater control dials have any sort of micro switches, that may be fitted behind the heater controls panel, with regards as to why the air-con is not working.
Today, I have looked at pulley on the compressor pump and whilst the belt and the inside part of the pulley are moving satisfactorly when the engine is running, but the outside part of the pulley is not rotating.
Inside the car, the fan blower speed control dial is working at all speeds and the air direction control is working correctly and the air recirculation switch is working correctly too. However when you switch on the air-con switch nothing happpens, no click as the clutch should be engaging.
Another thing I was aslo wondering is if at all I can drain and refill the system myself, with one these modern day diy kits that seem to be available these days
The car is a 93 1.6cc 8v BX TXi automatic.
The main question I was wondering is if there are any hidden micro swicthes, behind the heater control facia or on the heater unit itself, that would be stopping the air-con from working.
Any help or advice would be gratefully received and many-thanks
Vince,

[Way2go]

The heater control knob is undoubtedly restricted in operation by crud in the heater valve which is operated by those cables. Unfortunately most people find that it is a dismantling job to fix it. I found that mine became smooth and nice in operation by using Barr's Professional Flush and keeping it in the system for a few days. However you will have to drive around with the heater fully on now in the summer to get it to affect this part.

There is a low pressure switch for the refrigerant in the system. Did your Aircon ever work in your ownership? Is it original R12 or converted to R132a? I suspect the refrigerant is depleted and you cannot get R12 to top up as it is now outlawed (harms the ozone layer).

[Way2go]

Conversion of the aircon system to R132a is not simple. The R12 needs to be removed safely, also the oil from the pump which needs now to be PAG oil. All 'O' rings in the system need to be replaced with Neoprene type (green) and the receiver/dryer needs changing. The connection unions for the gas need changing or adaptors fitted that are compatable with R132a.
Finally the system can be vacuumed down and refilled with refrigerant.
There may be some things I have forgotten but the foregoing should give you the picture of what is needed to resurrect this system in the modern age.

[kiwi]

Over here I was qouted $250 plus and worse case up to $1k to "look at the system". Kind slows down the dream of adding the removed aircon unit to another vehicle. Since aircon is a "must have" in cars over here you would think that it would be cheaper and quite a few outlets to be able to do this??? Not so.

Besides what you need aircon for in the UK the summer is only a week long...........

[Vanny]

Conversion of the aircon system to R132a is not simple. The R12 needs to be removed safely, also the oil from the pump which needs now to be PAG oil. All 'O' rings in the system need to be replaced with Neoprene type (green) and the receiver/dryer needs changing. The connection unions for the gas need changing or adaptors fitted that are compatable with R132a.
Finally the system can be vacuumed down and refilled with refrigerant.
There may be some things I have forgotten but the foregoing should give you the picture of what is needed to resurrect this system in the modern age.

Total parts cost, less than £100. Might want to run a component flush. It's only parts swapping though, less complicated than changing an engine that's for sure!

AutoKool have all the parts you're likely to need, and are incredibly knowledgeable

http://www.carairconditioningsupplies.c ... n/home.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[kiwi]

Total parts cost, less than £100.

Thats good to know that $250nz is not to far off the mark on a global scale.

[mat_fenwick]

Besides what you need aircon for in the UK the summer is only a week long...........

Given the UK summer temperatures and the general damp weather here I probably use it more in the rest of the year to demist the car! It's rare you can't get a cool enough temperature inside with just the vents, but it brings the temperature down nicely if you've been parked in the sun, or are stuck in traffic.

[BX Bandit]

Yes there is a micro switch on the eater dial, it brings in high fan speed when set to coldest.

[Jaba]

Vince its not a job you can do yourself really. As it is most likely out of gas and may have a leak somewhere it needs a specialist to have a look at it.
But I suggest you first find out if it has been converted to 134a, as what you can do yourself will depend on this. You can tell this by looking at the connector cap on the recharging valve near the compressor. If its a small standard schrader valve cap then its an R12 system if its got a larger cap which is red or blue in colour its an R134a system.
Then confirm what sort of o-ring seals it has by removing one of the a/c condenser unions, they are at the lh end of the rad and checking the o-ring colour, if its black then you will have to change all the 12 or so o-rings in the system. You can get a kit from Autocool as Vanny mentioned.
Its a good idea to fit a new drier receiver as well. They are on ebay at the moment for a few quid.

[bx petrol auto saloon]

Dear W2G,
Firstly, thank-you so very much indeed for your most kind reply/s
Secondly, please accept my sincere apologies for my late reply There was an awfull lot to digest ( if you know what I mean )
Thirdly, I have only managed to locate one of the valves, the one underneath the car right underneath the engine coolant radiator Do you happen to know where the other one may be
With regards to the air-con, the one valve I have managed locate has a black top to it, so this isn,t looking too good at this moment is it One thing is do you think I would need to buy a special tool to remove the old valves and to be able to tighten up the new ones With regards to your questions, no the air-con has never worked, ever since I bought the car.
As an update, at the moment I have the drivers seat out and the heater facia panel off ( that did put up a hefty fight ) the left clip came undone relatively easily, but the right one wouldn,t budge for love nor money, it is off now, I just hope I havn,t broken anything. I need to spend some more time trying to solve the heater control problem.
Thanks ever-so -much for all your very kind help and assistance aswell
Vince,

[Vanny]

The BX only has one 'port'. The Citroen Recharge Manual suggests that you can use the inspection port on the compressor if you want to recover both sides of the system.

The cap colour doesn't tend to mean too much, most modern R134a systems come with a grey or a black cap, it seems that only after market system have the correct coloured caps, or if it has been properly serviced at some point.

An R12 port has a thread on the OUTSIDE and the inside, like the one on the left.
An R134a port has a thread ONLY on the INSIDE, like the one on the right.



The schrader valve in the middle is the same sort as fitted to a bicycle tyre, and is relatively easy to get a tool for, or failing that, we cut the head off a suitable screw driver and put a slot in the end to turn it into a schrader tool! and you end up with something like this;



These basics are really simple, but i think ultimately you're going to find you have no gas (a tap on the schrader pin will soon tell you if your system is under pressure). Without the right kit your going to find it rather difficult to trace the fault. Really want you need to do is pressurise the system and find the leak. Once repaired you'll need to place the system under a vacuum and make sure it doesn't leak. Then you can consider recharging.

Before the cost of gas, the kit to do these steps will cost over £1300.

That said if you take it to an AC specialist, the cost will START at £200 and rapidly work up from there!

[bx petrol auto saloon]

Dear Vanny,
Firstly, thank-you so very much indeed for all of your very kind advice
I have just been out to the car, just now to have a shufty at the valve and its not good news, the car has a valve that is threaded on outside, like one on the left of your great pics.
The air-con system still has a good pressure, when I push in the tyre valve in the centre, so I can only assume that there are no leaks apparent and it could just be low on refridgerant ( albeit the R12 )
One piece of good news is I have a tool for undoing tyre valves, so I least I may not need to buy one.
Many Thanks Vanny, I will keep everyone updated with how she progresses
Vince,

[bx petrol auto saloon]

Dear BX Bandit,
Thank-you so very much for your very kind reply
At this exact moment, I only have centre vents out, the 3 control knobs and the heater facia panel off. I have so far only found the one micro-switch and this one is totally connected to the recirc button
Do you think there may be others that are fitted to the rear of the heater control panel
I have started the cars engine and put all of the heater control dials in their correct positions and I have pressed the only micro-switch that I have found, but the air-con still fails to cut-in.
Vince,

[mat_fenwick]

Do you think there may be others that are fitted to the rear of the heater control panel

Yes, if fitted it will be on the rear of the temperature control dial (blue, red and white wires on mine) and will enable the full speed blower relay when turned to fully cold. It won't affect operation of the AC system though I've only seen it/heard about it being fitted on AC equipped cars.

[bx petrol auto saloon]

Dear Jaba,
Firstly, thank-you so very much indeed for your very kind advice
Secondly, I think looking at what I have got, I think that the sytem doesn,t appear, to me, to be totally holed and empty of refrigerant. Looking at it today it seems quite full and has a substantial amount of refrigerant, maybe just a tad low, just enough to stop it from working correctly Albeit it seems to be R 20 as opposed to R134a
I think what I need to do now is to find someone local who can drain out the old R 20 and it,s old oil if that is possible
And once it is empty, I can then put in a new drier receiver and then I can change all the black o-rings with nice new orange neoprene ones.
If there is only one shrader valve, how can you drain out the high pressure system and the low pressure system aswell and also how many updated R134a type shrader valves would I need to buy
Once I have the new R134a parts fitted, then I can get the system recharged and up and running again.
Once again many thanks for your very kind advice
Vince,