Valve seals
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- Confirmed BX'er
- Posts: 34
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- Location: Cumbria
Valve seals
Both my BX 1.6 are churning out blue smoke which suggests the valve seals/stems are leaking. Has anyone used Forte seal conditioner to overcome or improve this problem or does it mean I have to change the seals gulp!
Philbrook
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- BXpert
- Posts: 477
- Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:50 am
- Location: Tonbridge KENT
- My Cars: Citroens SAABs and Vauxhalls
- x 2
Re: Valve seals
Dear Phil Brook,
Firstly, sorry to hear your are having problems Phil
Secondly, how many miles have they both done then Phil
Thirdly, I have never known anyone who has tried using any additives to cure that problem Phil
It has always been a case of taking the cylinder head off and removing all of the valves, colletts and springs, and the old valve stem oil seals and putting each valve back in its correct stem ( without the springs on ) and rocking them to see how badly worn the valve stems are. and taking it from there.
I hope this helps Phil
Vince,
Firstly, sorry to hear your are having problems Phil
Secondly, how many miles have they both done then Phil
Thirdly, I have never known anyone who has tried using any additives to cure that problem Phil
It has always been a case of taking the cylinder head off and removing all of the valves, colletts and springs, and the old valve stem oil seals and putting each valve back in its correct stem ( without the springs on ) and rocking them to see how badly worn the valve stems are. and taking it from there.
I hope this helps Phil
Vince,
Passion Hydropneumatic Citroen,s
Cars;- 1993 White Citroen BX 1.6 TXi petrol
saloon auto with air-con & ABS.
47,594 Miles from new.
Owned for 3 years sorned.
1988 Silver SAAB 900i 2.0 8v F/lift,
saloon 5sp with 3 spoke Ronals,
69,000 Miles from new.
Owned for 15 years T & T.
Cars;- 1993 White Citroen BX 1.6 TXi petrol
saloon auto with air-con & ABS.
47,594 Miles from new.
Owned for 3 years sorned.
1988 Silver SAAB 900i 2.0 8v F/lift,
saloon 5sp with 3 spoke Ronals,
69,000 Miles from new.
Owned for 15 years T & T.
Re: Valve seals
how worn the valve guides are !! Vince
regards malcolm
regards malcolm
curent ride
K reg BX 17TD TZD est
also own
K reg D special
no longer have
H reg CX saffari 2.5 TRI (now gone to Malaysia)
R reg xantia 1.9TD est (gone to meet its maker)
K reg BX 17TD TZD est
also own
K reg D special
no longer have
H reg CX saffari 2.5 TRI (now gone to Malaysia)
R reg xantia 1.9TD est (gone to meet its maker)
Re: Valve seals
The 1.6 I have just removed from my runner Athena is a bit like this. Uses oil at 1 ltr per 1000 miles - oil leak somewhere in the crankcase as well. I think its more than just stem seals as the compression or something is not right. The about to be properely recommissioned unit which has not run for almost 4 years is definitely more powerful and so far no smoke from it - fingers crossed.
The old engine would haze and puff if you put your foot down hard even with the carb in pretty good condition. It has done 157k but I've only done near 40k and even after a cambelt change it wasn't any better. It's always been a bit lethargic compared to the other one. I suspect its a combination of lots of bits wearing and ditributor timing slightly out, carburettor slightly off tune etc that leads to a gradual fade of power. Bit like the gradual loss of gas in the spheres. I understand the units are capable of 200k + quite easily but also am suspicious of the quality of maintenance, despite service stamps sometimes...
If I was attacking my old unit it would be new valves, guides, seals at minimum. I don't have the valve seat cutting tools (a bit pricey) so probably would farm that out.
I obtained a price of 1350 + VAT from Vege for a fully remanufactured 1.6 XU52C engine and would recommend them.
The old engine would haze and puff if you put your foot down hard even with the carb in pretty good condition. It has done 157k but I've only done near 40k and even after a cambelt change it wasn't any better. It's always been a bit lethargic compared to the other one. I suspect its a combination of lots of bits wearing and ditributor timing slightly out, carburettor slightly off tune etc that leads to a gradual fade of power. Bit like the gradual loss of gas in the spheres. I understand the units are capable of 200k + quite easily but also am suspicious of the quality of maintenance, despite service stamps sometimes...
If I was attacking my old unit it would be new valves, guides, seals at minimum. I don't have the valve seat cutting tools (a bit pricey) so probably would farm that out.
I obtained a price of 1350 + VAT from Vege for a fully remanufactured 1.6 XU52C engine and would recommend them.
Re: Valve seals
i would firstly dismantle and clean the crank case breather system/filter/s, and make sure the rubber hose between the bottom of the filler neck and crank case has not collapsed,
either/both of these can cause oil leaks and fumy exhaust,
the main filter gauze is inside the filler neck,
regards malcolm
either/both of these can cause oil leaks and fumy exhaust,
the main filter gauze is inside the filler neck,
regards malcolm
curent ride
K reg BX 17TD TZD est
also own
K reg D special
no longer have
H reg CX saffari 2.5 TRI (now gone to Malaysia)
R reg xantia 1.9TD est (gone to meet its maker)
K reg BX 17TD TZD est
also own
K reg D special
no longer have
H reg CX saffari 2.5 TRI (now gone to Malaysia)
R reg xantia 1.9TD est (gone to meet its maker)
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- BXpert
- Posts: 477
- Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:50 am
- Location: Tonbridge KENT
- My Cars: Citroens SAABs and Vauxhalls
- x 2
Re: Valve seals
Dear Phil Brook,
Your cars only need a top-end overhaul Phil They don,t need to have new or secondhand engines putting in them.
What you need to do is to do some checks on them, on an individual basis, check the compressions ( the compressions tests need to be done with the plugs out, coil disconnected and on full throttle )
Check the cranckase breather systems as Malcolm has suggeted and you will need to have an idea as to how much oil they are using. If it is not much oil, then you may just get away with having to send the cylinder head off to a machinist to have new valve stems fitted and a the head skimmed. If it is using a lot of oil you may have to have pistons out and have the cylinders honed and new pistons rings fitted.
I hope tis helps Phil,
Vince,
Your cars only need a top-end overhaul Phil They don,t need to have new or secondhand engines putting in them.
What you need to do is to do some checks on them, on an individual basis, check the compressions ( the compressions tests need to be done with the plugs out, coil disconnected and on full throttle )
Check the cranckase breather systems as Malcolm has suggeted and you will need to have an idea as to how much oil they are using. If it is not much oil, then you may just get away with having to send the cylinder head off to a machinist to have new valve stems fitted and a the head skimmed. If it is using a lot of oil you may have to have pistons out and have the cylinders honed and new pistons rings fitted.
I hope tis helps Phil,
Vince,
Passion Hydropneumatic Citroen,s
Cars;- 1993 White Citroen BX 1.6 TXi petrol
saloon auto with air-con & ABS.
47,594 Miles from new.
Owned for 3 years sorned.
1988 Silver SAAB 900i 2.0 8v F/lift,
saloon 5sp with 3 spoke Ronals,
69,000 Miles from new.
Owned for 15 years T & T.
Cars;- 1993 White Citroen BX 1.6 TXi petrol
saloon auto with air-con & ABS.
47,594 Miles from new.
Owned for 3 years sorned.
1988 Silver SAAB 900i 2.0 8v F/lift,
saloon 5sp with 3 spoke Ronals,
69,000 Miles from new.
Owned for 15 years T & T.
Re: Valve seals
Vincebx petrol auto saloon wrote: have new valve stems fitted
Vince,
Valve guides not stems
Phill
i would check the crank case breather before removing the head
regards malcolm
curent ride
K reg BX 17TD TZD est
also own
K reg D special
no longer have
H reg CX saffari 2.5 TRI (now gone to Malaysia)
R reg xantia 1.9TD est (gone to meet its maker)
K reg BX 17TD TZD est
also own
K reg D special
no longer have
H reg CX saffari 2.5 TRI (now gone to Malaysia)
R reg xantia 1.9TD est (gone to meet its maker)
- Mike E (uk)
- 1K Away
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- Location: High Wycombe, Bucks
- x 1
Re: Valve seals
I had valve guide oil seals on an 8V petrol bx need replacing at about 80,000 miles.
Blue smoke appeared as soon as the engine had warmed up, and the MOT emissions were too high.
My oil consumption was high too.
The silicone seals had gone rock hard and let the oil burn in the cylinders.
I made lots of measurements,and there was no wear in the valve guides or valve stems.
Fitted 8 new oil seals,head bolts, all gaskets/seals, valve springs, decoked it and ground in the valves & set the valve clearances again.
It then ran sweet as a nut, and pulled like a train.
Blue smoke appeared as soon as the engine had warmed up, and the MOT emissions were too high.
My oil consumption was high too.
The silicone seals had gone rock hard and let the oil burn in the cylinders.
I made lots of measurements,and there was no wear in the valve guides or valve stems.
Fitted 8 new oil seals,head bolts, all gaskets/seals, valve springs, decoked it and ground in the valves & set the valve clearances again.
It then ran sweet as a nut, and pulled like a train.
la BX 16 soupapes: sachez apprecier avec moderation.
It might be clever now, but it won't be in the morning!
It might be clever now, but it won't be in the morning!
- Tim Leech
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Re: Valve seals
Its quite a common problem on the petrol ones ive been told by various sources, the GT has has them done when its replacement engine was fitted, also I had a 1990 BX 16TZS in 1996 which has 80k on it at the time and that chucked out blue smoke when driven with vigour and on cold start up.
Strangely the injection models ive owned havent been an issue with more miles on, the TZI has 91k on it now and doesnt seem to chuck out blue smoke (it has a cat if that makes any difference but does smell a bit oily at times...
Strangely the injection models ive owned havent been an issue with more miles on, the TZI has 91k on it now and doesnt seem to chuck out blue smoke (it has a cat if that makes any difference but does smell a bit oily at times...
Lots of Motors, mostly semi broken....
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Re: Valve seals
valve seals dont last a lifetime, after over 20 years of hot/cold and said mileage, i would imagine them to be becoming very hard and not sealing as they should, check the cond of your spark plugs, sooty deposits mean rich/oil being burnt, as said above i think i would intend to start with a head strip/rebuild, top gasket set/oil seals. do a compression check first, this will eliminate any worn bores/rings. done the same on a 309 (similar engine i expect) years ago, made a vast improvement on performance and consumption. im sure a full head gasket set with valve seals can be picked up for under £50 of reasonable quality.
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90 BX Tzd turbo estate 46k awaiting surgery
65 Peugeot Boxer Van the new workhorse
52 Toyota Rav4 180k Bulletproof Jap reliability
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- Confirmed BX'er
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Re: Valve seals
Thanks one and all. I'm not very mechanical so am going to try the Forte seal to start with before venturing into the to me engine unknowns!!! I've looked on a few sites which are quite encouraging for the product and as its only going to cost me £14.00 I will try it on my blue BX which has 120,000 on the clock. My other has only 80,000 and in many ways apart from the smoke feels and looks about 2 years old!! Both have recently passed MOT tests including emissions with no problems at all, in fact suprisingly they have never failed under my ownership of 4 and 2 years respectively.
Philbrook