The red shell!

A place for us to show off our cars in all their glory. Please keep picture sizes to about 800x600 pixels.
User avatar
Kitch
Over 2k
Posts: 6213
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:36 pm
Location: Fareham, Hants
x 50

The red shell!

Post by Kitch » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:20 am

As some may know, I collected this yesterday. BX 16v....£100 (£150 if you include the fuel I used!). Bargain? Not really, it doesn't have an engine.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Bit missing:
Image

Inner wings look good:
Image
Image

Image
Image

Nearside A-pillar in excellent condition (like my other red one, weirdly):
Image

Roof:
Image

Windscreen pillar (been like it a while so guess the whole A-pillar will be pretty bad)
Image

Image
Image
Image

So there it is. I've now got a dilemma on my hands - what to do with it!

Option A: Originally I went and collected it because I figured it would be long dead and when you've got a 16v (and you intend to keep it for good) having a shed full of spares is pretty reassuring. So option A is stick to what I was going to do....break it for spares, and I mean break it properly, wasting nothing. Not rip what I want and crush the rest....I would even consider trying to un-stitch the shell's spot welds!

Option B: Take note on the fact that by and large, it's not actually in too bad a condition. Ok so the paint's pretty sad, but paintwork doesn't make a good car. In the important areas, it doesn't look too bad. Though in some (windscreen surrounds) it does look pretty poor! But because the condition isn't too bad, sell the car on again to someone who wants to resurrect it, or at least do something with it. I have taken pity on it and I do believe it was quite a nice one before it was butchered, so it would be lovely to see it going again, but I also have to think of my other car and the spares I may need. That said, i also have the grey one (G-SEG) and that also carries a load of parts. And that car is dead; the shell is in far worse condition than this one (from what I've seen so far). But, putting my selfish hat on (true to character) selling it on again doesn't benefit me in any way. I feel good about "saving" it, but then at the same time no body else stepped up to the plate to go and collect it this weekend, and if I hadn't it would be sitting in a scrap yard awaiting the crusher right now, along with all the rare spares on it. I also have to be aware of the fact that I have no idea the mechanical condition of the car....suspension, brakes, electronics etc. And who knows how they butchered that engine out and what state it might be in.

Option C1: Take pity on the car and get it up and running using the bits from G-SEG like the engine, box etc. Get it MoT'd, and sell as a running project needing bodywork.
Option C2: As above, but get bodywork sorted out prior to sale, so it's a minter. Risk with both these options is I end up out of pocket, and 16v values seem to really be hit and miss at the moment; we're definitely in the mk1's golden era in terms of values! There's also the time factor to consider, though this way only one 16v dies.

So far I've got some thinking to do! Need to have a better look around the shell and see what state it's in. There are a few areas I'm concerned about in the engine bay, and I know from experience if you find a car someone has stripped parts from, they usually haven't been too careful in how they go about it. Being pragmatic, it was going to get cubed today, so the very worst is that it still dies, but it's recycled thoroughly rather than wasted.

Hmmmmmmmm......

User avatar
Kitch
Over 2k
Posts: 6213
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:36 pm
Location: Fareham, Hants
x 50

Re: The red shell!

Post by Kitch » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:24 am

Oh, and it came with a sunroof deflector, but I'll probably sell that!

User avatar
mat_fenwick
Moderator
Posts: 7279
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:08 pm
Location: North Wales
x 13

Re: The red shell!

Post by mat_fenwick » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:53 am

The last two options will take time, and by then I'd say it's likely values will have stabilised upwards. Easy to say though, not my money! Maybe in fact there's more valvers out there than people who want them?

But I certainly wouldn't feel guilty about selling it on at market value - you've collected which had bought some time, and means it won't go to waste whatever happens. If it wasn't for that pillar I'd go for option C1, but I reckon that'd put a lot of buyers off. See what it's like underneath, that might make your mind up.

Oh, and the sunroof deflector might make half your costs back straight away :lol:
Image

1993 1.9 TZD Turbo Estate
1996 3.9 V8 Discovery
1993 VW LT35 campervan
1985 Hyundai Stellar V8
2016 Hyundai iLoad

Dollywobbler
Over 2k
Posts: 3940
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 2:25 pm
Location: Wales

Re: The red shell!

Post by Dollywobbler » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:00 am

I think a more thorough inspection is needed really. If it really is solid bar that windscreen rot, then saving it seems the way to go - especially as you do actually have a 16v engine sitting in SEG. If there's more rot lurking underneath though, then the question gets a lot trickier to answer!

User avatar
Tim Leech
Over 2k
Posts: 15206
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:12 am
Location: Burton on Trent
My Cars: 1958 ROVER P4 90 UWP 84
1963 VW BEETLE 1200 KGJ413A
1972 Morris Marina 1.8 SDL BFA720L
1979 Rover SD1 3.5 V8-S TSL 982
1980 Morris Marina 1.7HL DBV468W
1985 CITROEN BX 19GT C1TBX
1991 CITROEN BX 19TZI AUTO A/C BXi 19
1994 CITROEN XANTIA 1.8 SXi M908HRY
2003 Rover 25 1.6i XL L33CHT
x 70

Re: The red shell!

Post by Tim Leech » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:04 am

Given the tiny numbers of 16v's left and that it isnt THAT bad (its 23 years old) and it only cost you £150 and you have a spares car I think you should make one good one out of the two and then sell it on. If you make a profit then good luck to you for taking the initiative to save it being scrapped.
1963 VW BEETLE 1200
1985 BX 19GT Mk1
1991 BX 19TZI Auto A/C
1994 Xantia 1.8i SX
1972 Morris Marina 1.8 SDL
1979 Rover SD1 V8-S
1980 Morris Marina 1.7HL
2002 Rover 75 CDTi Connossieur SE AUTO Nav
2003 Rover 25 1.6i XL 5 DR

User avatar
Kitch
Over 2k
Posts: 6213
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:36 pm
Location: Fareham, Hants
x 50

Re: The red shell!

Post by Kitch » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:56 am

mat_fenwick wrote:The last two options will take time, and by then I'd say it's likely values will have stabilised upwards. Easy to say though, not my money! Maybe in fact there's more valvers out there than people who want them?

But I certainly wouldn't feel guilty about selling it on at market value - you've collected which had bought some time, and means it won't go to waste whatever happens. If it wasn't for that pillar I'd go for option C1, but I reckon that'd put a lot of buyers off. See what it's like underneath, that might make your mind up.

Oh, and the sunroof deflector might make half your costs back straight away :lol:
The money is something I'm not prepared to risk as such - can't afford to these days! I think 16valves do have value in them, but only for the good cars. The projects seem to be avoided somewhat!

The pillar is a biggie. I've done the exact same repair on the GT, so I know what's involved there. Not an easy one sadly.

User avatar
Kitch
Over 2k
Posts: 6213
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:36 pm
Location: Fareham, Hants
x 50

Re: The red shell!

Post by Kitch » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:57 am

Dollywobbler wrote:I think a more thorough inspection is needed really. If it really is solid bar that windscreen rot, then saving it seems the way to go - especially as you do actually have a 16v engine sitting in SEG. If there's more rot lurking underneath though, then the question gets a lot trickier to answer!
I agree, before I commit to anything else I need to see it underneath. Not easy when it's jammed on low! :lol:

User avatar
Kitch
Over 2k
Posts: 6213
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:36 pm
Location: Fareham, Hants
x 50

Re: The red shell!

Post by Kitch » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:01 am

Tim Leech wrote:Given the tiny numbers of 16v's left and that it isnt THAT bad (its 23 years old) and it only cost you £150 and you have a spares car I think you should make one good one out of the two and then sell it on. If you make a profit then good luck to you for taking the initiative to save it being scrapped.
Thing is there aren't tiny numbers left. Not compared with some of the more basic models anyway. Yes it only cost £150 (although saying 'only' seems weird as it's just a pile of bits at the moment) but it's not always easy to just make one out of two. I've got a young family, so the time I put into stuff like this has to be rewarded financially otherwise I'm working for nothing and missing out on time with them. There's not a hope in hell of making a profit from what I can see - as a running car it'd possibly be wroth £500-£600 and if I got the bodywork all ship shape, possibly £1100-£1300? I'm really not sure on 16v values at the moment! For all the time that would be involved, that's not really much of a 'profit'. Plus the engine in G-SEG is gutless as a gutless thing, so that needs attention first too.

rutter123
Over 2k
Posts: 2175
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:54 pm
Location: South Lincs
x 53

Re: The red shell!

Post by rutter123 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:03 am

i think as time goes on a lot of bx'ers are now thinking twice about scrapping cars now, i myself have done it with my old tgd which was destined for cubing, but resurected and served 4 years, and my tzdt which now 7 years on is still here was also awaiting cubing, the time will come when fellows will buy up rolling shell s like yours however rotten as a base for a project, its no where near as rusty as 50 shades when i got it. my main concern with yours is the windscreen pillar rot, i would be inclined to remove the dash and check for rot within the a pillar/sill/floorpan/bulkhead as this looks to be rusting from the inside out, but repairable none the less. making one good from two cars just to sell on sounds like a time consuming headache, and you will also be contributing parts from your own spares stash, but ultimately down to time and £'s and willingness.,but every 16v is worth saving as there really cant be that many left.
90 BX Tzd turbo 294k SORN undergoing major surgery
90 BX Tzd turbo estate 46k awaiting surgery
65 Peugeot Boxer Van the new workhorse
52 Toyota Rav4 180k Bulletproof Jap reliability

User avatar
TizzyD
BXpert
BXpert
Posts: 522
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:36 pm
Location: Bedfordshire
x 10

Re: The red shell!

Post by TizzyD » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:59 am

Apart from the rot already mentioned and whatever else there maybe to find, it doesn't look to bad over all. It would be good to see it saved but left in its current state as I like the faded red and bits of trim hanging off haha, having never been in/driven/owned a 16v I would like one someday and saving this one would mean there is one more out there, but as others have said, it's not my time or money going into it
'02 Clio Dynamique 1.2 16v - 92K - Sold
'09 Yamaha YBR 125 - 1100 miles
'93 Bx 17 TZD Turbo - 240K - The Aubergine

Image

User avatar
Vanny
Merseyside resident
Merseyside resident
Posts: 3446
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 11:48 pm
Location: BX Pub
My Cars: BX 16v Ph2
x 16

Re: The red shell!

Post by Vanny » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:16 pm

Of the few cars I've taken apart with that much rot in the windscreen, the shell has been somewhat twisted and beyond salvage. Have you looked in the scuttle under the washer bottles? Any crunchy feelings?

User avatar
Kitch
Over 2k
Posts: 6213
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:36 pm
Location: Fareham, Hants
x 50

Re: The red shell!

Post by Kitch » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:34 pm

rutter123 wrote:i think as time goes on a lot of bx'ers are now thinking twice about scrapping cars now, i myself have done it with my old tgd which was destined for cubing, but resurected and served 4 years, and my tzdt which now 7 years on is still here was also awaiting cubing, the time will come when fellows will buy up rolling shell s like yours however rotten as a base for a project, its no where near as rusty as 50 shades when i got it. my main concern with yours is the windscreen pillar rot, i would be inclined to remove the dash and check for rot within the a pillar/sill/floorpan/bulkhead as this looks to be rusting from the inside out, but repairable none the less. making one good from two cars just to sell on sounds like a time consuming headache, and you will also be contributing parts from your own spares stash, but ultimately down to time and £'s and willingness.,but every 16v is worth saving as there really cant be that many left.
There are more 16vs left than you'd think right now. Be lovely to try and save them all but your points are valid....making one car out of two is a headache.

User avatar
Kitch
Over 2k
Posts: 6213
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:36 pm
Location: Fareham, Hants
x 50

Re: The red shell!

Post by Kitch » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:35 pm

Vanny wrote:Of the few cars I've taken apart with that much rot in the windscreen, the shell has been somewhat twisted and beyond salvage. Have you looked in the scuttle under the washer bottles? Any crunchy feelings?
No. Had intended to have a better look in an hour or two but it's just start binning it down with rain here, and being that it hasn't really done so for weeks it's flooded pretty quick! :lol:

User avatar
citsncycles
Over 2k
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:14 pm
Location: Dursley, Gloucestershire

Re: The red shell!

Post by citsncycles » Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:49 pm

It always amazes me the number of people who say a valver needs to be saved because it's so rare, yet there's possibly as many valvers around as there are 16's of any model!

Having said that, it looks a saveable motor, but like many cars (not just BX's) only worth doing if it's for yourself. I think a mint valver could fetch 2 or 3 grand, but it would have to be mint, and there would be a big gap in values between the perfect car and one needing a couple of details sorting.

The club seems to have plenty of members willing to do mechanical work but are unable to do bodywork repairs for 1 reason or another. I don't know if it would be worth it financially, but doing the welding work required would make it much more sellable. I think the reason no one else was prepared to take it on was because it was assumed by many that an engine donor must be rotten, while until recently a complete valver was probably worth less than its engine!
Mike Sims
BX 19RD Estate Mk1 - Timex!
BX 4X4 Estate - Oh god, I've done it again!
BX 17RD MK1 - it called to me!
BX14 TGE, - SOLD
XM Turbo SD,GS Club Estate,Visa 17D Leader,HY Pickup,Dyane Nomad,Dyane 6,2CV AZL,Falcon S,Trabant P50,3x Land Rovers (88" series 1,109" series 2a FFR,series 2a Marshall ambulance),DKW F7, Lambretta LD150 x 1.5,Mobylette SP93,Ural Cossack,Ural M63,CZ 250 Sport,Honda Varadero 125,lots of bicycles & tricycles including (but not only) Sunbeams,Higgins & Bates!

User avatar
Kitch
Over 2k
Posts: 6213
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:36 pm
Location: Fareham, Hants
x 50

Re: The red shell!

Post by Kitch » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:16 pm

citsncycles wrote:It always amazes me the number of people who say a valver needs to be saved because it's so rare, yet there's possibly as many valvers around as there are 16's of any model!

Having said that, it looks a saveable motor, but like many cars (not just BX's) only worth doing if it's for yourself. I think a mint valver could fetch 2 or 3 grand, but it would have to be mint, and there would be a big gap in values between the perfect car and one needing a couple of details sorting.

The club seems to have plenty of members willing to do mechanical work but are unable to do bodywork repairs for 1 reason or another. I don't know if it would be worth it financially, but doing the welding work required would make it much more sellable. I think the reason no one else was prepared to take it on was because it was assumed by many that an engine donor must be rotten, while until recently a complete valver was probably worth less than its engine!
I quite agree Mike. For a single model, the 16v is probably one of the more common variants left. I think the reason they're still regarded as one of the rare ones is that their decline in numbers was massively influenced by the 205 brigade, rather than just declining naturally like the 14s and 16s etc have. You're probably right.....if we looked into it we'd probably find less 16s than 16Vs!
I'd love to think a mint one could fetch £2-3k. I think £2k is easily within reach for a minter, possibly £2.5k.

Thing is, this one is probably saveable, yes. But would it be worthwhile me doing it? No, I'd have to spend a fair whack on it getting it painted and probably wouldn't see it back. I've been out again today and had a slightly better look over it. Found this:

Image
Image
Image

Look closer at the A-pillar....

Image
Image

The O/S is totally shot....made of dust. I've had the same thing to sort on the GT and it wasn't easy to do. And if I'm going to be paying for a red 16v to be resprayed, I think I'd rather be getting BAH done up!

My thoughts at the moment are that sadly it's all about survival of the fittest, and that though this one was unquestionably a good one in recent years, it's declined pretty badly over the last few and could be used to preserve others.

Image

I'll probably change my mind tomorrow though :lol: