Whilst I'm here...Paris Rhone starter can be deceiving

[B-Hive]

Just removed and re-installed the starter in the TRS...uber easy job

This time I replaced the brushes, owing to be able to disassemble unit completely this time..all back in and working really nicely now..

Just a quick note that may be of interest to some that the Paris Rhone has an odd design characteristic. Being that if the bushes are very worn or the main motor part circuit is open, then the solenoid will not work too...ie hardwiring the solenoid will give the impression that it too is fubar...

I remember discovering this the first time I pulled the starter and bench tested it..I concluded the solenoid was the problem, and so cleaned it up, reassembled and everything worked (for a short time).. I must have jiggled the brushes giving them a tad more life..

So yeah...trick for new players there!!

Chow

[Tinkley]

Out of interest what was the 'failure' mode, other than not turning? Was it slower than normal on turn one of the key then faster and faster with successive turns until it started? Eventually it would not turn at all.
That's what happened to mine which is something similar to the DR6a unit. I was able to source brushes from some Yorkshire outfit for £1.78 but had to modify the other end terminals ie solder on the old ones to get it to fit correctly. One of the brushes had worn excessively partly due to a bad solder connection at the other end, the one onto the outer steel body part. Make sure you get theis solid. It took me quite a few goes with thick solder wire (yes even filed clean and fluxed it kept breaking with the slightest braid flex) until it was truly solid. I would even consider silver solder for this one terminal it was such a sod.

Your right, the starter is fairly easy to get off/on and at least it stripped OK. Like you I cleaned out the solenoid as far as poss and popped it back. Ref 16 TGS Athena(s).

[B-Hive]

Out of interest what was the 'failure' mode, other than not turning? Was it slower than normal on turn one of the key then faster and faster with successive turns until it started? Eventually it would not turn at all.
That's what happened to mine which is something similar to the DR6a unit. I was able to source brushes from some Yorkshire outfit for £1.78 but had to modify the other end terminals ie solder on the old ones to get it to fit correctly. One of the brushes had worn excessively partly due to a bad solder connection at the other end, the one onto the outer steel body part. Make sure you get theis solid. It took me quite a few goes with thick solder wire (yes even filed clean and fluxed it kept breaking with the slightest braid flex) until it was truly solid. I would even consider silver solder for this one terminal it was such a sod.

Your right, the starter is fairly easy to get off/on and at least it stripped OK. Like you I cleaned out the solenoid as far as poss and popped it back. Ref 16 TGS Athena(s).

Failure mode as you said pretty much exactly..slow and grindy ..gets successively better with each attempt..then bingo!! it'll start..but eventually yes ..nothing at all ..not even a click from the solenoid. mine is also a DR6a..I have to say they fail quite oddly..

My brushes were quite expensive but were local/overnight.. brush web sites had them and would have been cheaper but not worth the wait IMO..
Before removing the hard wired braided brush, I tested to see if the lug would take solder...it didnt.. so I opted to leave about 10mm of braid onto the top of which i soldered the new brush braid wire.. that bit wasnt super easy, but i wanted to ensure that there was plenty of solder through the connection..

[Tinkley]

Agreed, they fail oddly. It almost had me replacing the battery but the failure is the opposite! I think the initial turn just shakes the brush to give a better contact for successive starting attempts. Thanks for your input and I'm sure you've got it solid on that wretched terminal.

[electrokid]

Being that if the bushes are very worn or the main motor part circuit is open, then the solenoid will not work too

That's interesting and very useful info. I associate odd failure modes like that with Fords rather than Citroens !

I tested to see if the lug would take solder...it didnt..

If I find components that don't seem to take solder I tend to experiment with the flux. Quite often I find that caustic soda (drain cleaner) works well but you need to wear protective goggles and take any other precautions you think might be needed because it spits like hell and is very corrosive - it'll blind you instantly if it gets in your eyes. Dissolve the caustic soda in a small amount of water and paste it over the joint ensuring that all surfaces that need to be whetted (old term to describe the process of solder flowing and sticking to the surface) are covered, and let it dry before trying to solder. Protect anything in the vicinity from flying caustic soda.