That little red BX14E... Does it need lead additive?

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jamescarruthers
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That little red BX14E... Does it need lead additive?

Post by jamescarruthers »

Looking here http://www.citroenet.org.uk/miscellaneo ... eaded.html and here http://citroen.tramontana.co.hu/fuel-ex ... eaded-fuel I see my new little suitcase engined friend will need its ignition advanced by 4 degrees and to run on 98RON. I think it has the 150C engine in as opposed to another letter at the end of the 150.

That is fine, if that's what I need and I will discuss it with the current owner before I collect it. But, does anyone know if I'm supposed to use one of these lead-alternative additives too? Or in fact, does anyone know much about running one of these engines on modern fuel?
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Re: That little red BX14E... Does it need lead additive?

Post by jamescarruthers »

Erm... To summarise the above waffle:


I think I must:
Run on the expensive petrol (BP Ultimate or Shell Optimax) to get the octane up
Add the magic lead replacement additive: to prevent VSR.

Funnily enough the guy says the slight gearbox rattle has 'been there forever'... I wonder if its just pinking from running on lower octane and if advancing the ignition will cure this.

P.S. Are advancing the timing and advancing the ignition, the same thing?
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Re: That little red BX14E... Does it need lead additive?

Post by mds141 »

You could try using Castrol 'valvemaster plus' which is a lead replacement additive AND a octane booster.
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Re: That little red BX14E... Does it need lead additive?

Post by mat_fenwick »

It's been 10 years or so since I last needed to use an additive for unleaded (when I fitted hardened valve seat to my BMW bike), but all the ones I used back then also contained an octane booster, and perhaps all do nowadays?

Advancing the ignition/timing are the same thing. But, you need to retard the amount of ignition advance when running on a lower octane fuel - in your case from 8 degrees BTDC to 4 degrees. Or use the octane booster.
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Re: That little red BX14E... Does it need lead additive?

Post by Dollywobbler »

You can get them with and without booster. I'm a bit sceptical regarding them anyway. Ran our Mini for many years on neat unleaded with no problems - and they were the benchmark for the FBHVC's tests! We did almost 30,000 miles in that car, with a fair dose of motorway driving.

If you're not planning to cover vast distances at high speed, I'd be tempted just to stick with normal fuel. Most (but not all) alloy-headed engines have hardened valve seats anyway. Do these have an alloy head?
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Re: That little red BX14E... Does it need lead additive?

Post by mat_fenwick »

The other option I've just thought of is to use a lubricant such as Flashlube (if you retard the timing), which is used on LPG converted engines which are prone to VSR, and lubricates directly into the inlet tract. That way you only need to top a bottle once in a while rather than every fill.
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Re: That little red BX14E... Does it need lead additive?

Post by Tim Leech »

I had a C plate 14E leader a few years back which had a lead replacement "balls" in a kind of cannister which was in the fuel lines, which as the fuel flowed past them it added lead to the mix.

I use castrol valvemaster in my 65 Moggy and a bit of super plus aswell!
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Re: That little red BX14E... Does it need lead additive?

Post by Kitch »

Not really, no. The 16v is also designed to use 4-star, but unless you're doing 12,000 miles a year I don't think you're really going to notice valve seat wear! I'd just drive it until it needs them changing....it could be 20 years from now! Plus, you don't know what it's been run on up to this point either, so spending money on additives is pretty futile as if it hasn't been using them in the past, they're not going to rebuild the valve seats!

I'd just run unleaded, or super unleaded preferably (as at least the octane is closer) and get the timing set to suit, ideally on a rolling road. Then just drive it. :)
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Re: That little red BX14E... Does it need lead additive?

Post by KevR »

Tim Leech wrote:I had a C plate 14E leader a few years back which had a lead replacement "balls" in a kind of cannister which was in the fuel lines, which as the fuel flowed past them it added lead to the mix.
I bet it didn't..... We did a series of tests on those kind of things (including full on lab tests with varable compression ratio engines) when I worked at Performance BIkes magazine, and they were all completely inert, made no difference at all....
Castrol Valvemaster gets my vote based on tests and personal experience - ISTR there's a basic one and one with an octane booster, but it's better to use higher octane fuel in the first place, not least because it's more likely to have little or no ethanol content, and current E10 (up to 10% ethanol) fuel is very bad news for older fuel systems.
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Re: That little red BX14E... Does it need lead additive?

Post by Dollywobbler »

Yup. Those pellet systems are all utter rubbish. They keep selling them though, largely because by doing nothing, people think they're doing something, when actually, putting nothing in the tank would also have resulted in nothing happening!
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Re: That little red BX14E... Does it need lead additive?

Post by Tim Leech »

Dollywobbler wrote:Yup. Those pellet systems are all utter rubbish. They keep selling them though, largely because by doing nothing, people think they're doing something, when actually, putting nothing in the tank would also have resulted in nothing happening!

Ahh, well it was fitted when I got and still there a when I sold it...
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Re: That little red BX14E... Does it need lead additive?

Post by Tinkley »

Dead right about the 10% additives including ethanol. I bet the float and diaghrams in the carb are not designed for prolonged exposure to ethanol and the other 'aromatics'. Even my unleaded 1.6 has shown significant hardening on some of these parts and required them to be replaced. I think the limit on normal 95 RON unleaded is 5% aromatics (no one declares their blend) and these fuels were not around when the BX was designed and they certainly are not designed for carburettors but for fuel injection systems.
Although the simpler Solex on the 1.4 is easier to dismantle and clean with NO autochoke rubbish it will potentially require a good checking over. Personally if I was keeping it a long time I'd do the diaghrams and change the float, possibly the needle valve as it comes in the full repair kit.

My old Morini was leaded and a couple of those additives/pellet systems were tried on a few bikes. After 13k there was significant valve seat wear. Unless you wasnt to whip the head off to do the valves every say 30k its worth putting something in to 'help' it. Definitely runs better on the higher octane.

I note the advice quoted in the Haynes about Citroen specing a valve spring renewal every 30k.... lol.
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Re: That little red BX14E... Does it need lead additive?

Post by rutter123 »

sure my 1st bx a 14re suitcase/4 sp run on unleaded for the 30k that i run it for, but it had so much cam rattle you couldnt hear the pinking.
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Re: That little red BX14E... Does it need lead additive?

Post by ghaddon1701 »

Tetraboost is the only additive with actual lead in it. The best additive by far. The only problem is you have to buy it by the case.
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Re: That little red BX14E... Does it need lead additive?

Post by kiwi »

Dont you guys still have LRP? Lead replacement Petrol available at the pumps?

Just to add to the waffle when I first came to NZ the highest octane was 95 leaded and the other grade is 91. In 1996 the (along with the other island) stop putting lead in the fuel and supplied this additive called valvemaster in littl squirty tubes. Oh that was a fun time to work in the fuel industry (not). Getting abuse for problems caused by this pommie grade fuel as one person put it after the media scare of the super unleaded year or so before.

Anyways when came back to the UK I mentioned this fact to my local mechanics who said "oh no you got to use four star people" blah blah blah. The fact that BX16 (whihc I had at the time) in NZ were running on lower octane 95 and did not require the additive escaped them. Of course then the EC directive came along by year 2000 removing lead in fuel and in its place LRP.

Shuffle back to NZ in 2003 they introduced Super Unleaded 98 for all those "high" performance cars. Which BX fits in that range? Of course all these cars had happily been running 95 until this point but marketing 98 even got the wasters on 91 to "think" there cars went better on 98. Present day majority of BP sites here only sell 91 or 98 octane petrol but many others still sell 95. So in a way you go into a BP site only that only sells 91 and 98 your being ripped off an extra 8 cents fro a fuel you dont need. I boycott BP sites like that for that very reason.

Point of this waffle

Cars imported to NZ since ages ago only ran on 95 only recently has 98 become available (like 10 years after the BX ceased production) even the 16 valve, what puzzles me is thats supposed to be a lead fuel only vehicle??? Only recall ever seeing one BX14 in NZ that was a UK import but basically probably the reason they were not imported was the low fuel grade.

From what I can recall the BX14 pre 1988 could not use anything but leaded or LRP fuel. The later models could! James what year is your BX14? I still have by unleaded guides somewhere ;)
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
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1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91
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