Alternative Fuels (split thread)

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electrokid
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Alternative Fuels (split thread)

Post by electrokid »

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Re: diesel leak corroded fuel pipe

Post by electrokid »

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Re: diesel leak corroded fuel pipe

Post by Defender110 »

I've never understood why some want to use a fuel in their engines that it wasn't designed or made to use when there is no shortage of supply of the correct fuel. :?
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Re: diesel leak corroded fuel pipe

Post by MULLEY »

Price ;)
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Re: diesel leak corroded fuel pipe

Post by Defender110 »

False economy with all the extra fuel filter changes, the sourcing of the fuel and the internet is littered with cry's for help from users who have knackered up their fuel injection systems up and cars refusing to start in the cold. Run the correct fuel and have a trouble free motoring life :wink: :roll:
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Re: diesel leak corroded fuel pipe

Post by citsncycles »

I've run mine on a mix of veg oil and diesel for 2 reasons. First price - veg oil at a quid / ltr is too good to pass up. 2nd emmissions - those pesky test rigs at the MOT stations are confused by the veg oil so don't pick it up, plus it burns cleaner anyway.

Having said that, I wouldn't run mine on waste oil, or more than 50% mix (I usually have much less than that in there). I also only run on a mix in warm weather in order to reduce the stress on the fuel system.

Are there similar anti-feelings here about running a petrol engine on LPG?
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Re: diesel leak corroded fuel pipe

Post by mat_fenwick »

citsncycles wrote:Are there similar anti-feelings here about running a petrol engine on LPG?
Not from this end! Although there are many people with anti-LPG feelings, some understandably after they're suffered problems whilst running on LPG (which may or may not be linked to the fuel...) The only issue I know of (with hard evidence) is that of valve seat wear, which can be a significant problem on engines where the seat material is marginal whilst running on petrol.

Solved by fitting a lubrication system such as Flashlube, or current gas injection kits can part or fully fuel with petrol under certain conditions i.e. those at which valve seat recession is likely to occur most.
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Re: Alternative Fuels (split thread)

Post by mds141 »

Rudolph Diesel always intended the Diesel engine to run on vegetable oil. Article copied from the Wikipedia page. Use of vegetable oils as diesel engine fuel..

In the foreword to a book titled "Diesel Engines for Land and Marine Work",[7] Rudolf Diesel states, "In 1900 a small Diesel engine was exhibited by the Otto company which, on the suggestion of the French Government, was run on Arachide oil, and operated so well that very few people were aware of the fact. The motor was built for ordinary oils, and without any modification was run on vegetable oil." Diesel went on to say that "I have recently repeated these experiments on a large scale with full success and entire confirmation of the results formerly obtained."
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Re: Alternative Fuels (split thread)

Post by Defender110 »

mds141 wrote:Rudolph Diesel always intended the Diesel engine to run on vegetable oil.
That doesn't alter the fact that none of our engines were or the fact they had to develop a better fuel for the engines to run properly :wink:
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Re: Alternative Fuels (split thread)

Post by mds141 »

I thought the development of diesel fuel was merely to keep the oil producing cartels happy?
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Re: Alternative Fuels (split thread)

Post by citsncycles »

I can't speak for the XUD, but I know that the 2.0 and 2 1/4lt Land Rover diesels were built to run on whatever fuel was available locally, be it diesel, paraffin, heating oil, veg oil or even any waste oil - all they stipulated was a preheater for some fuels. It's probably why Land Rover diesels are regarded by so many as inefficient as the ability to run on almost anything was more important than outright performance.

Back to LPG - I have plans to run the 4x4 on it (assuming I can fit a suitable tank without filling the load space!) and was going to do the same on the ambulance, but I am now considering the possibility of running the H pickup on it once it's on the road. Unlike later vans with the alloy head (which Dutch H vanners have been running on LPG sucessfully for 20 years or more now), mine has the cast head, so will need either better valve seats or the additive Mat mentioned.

Poeple have even tried running other engines, such as 2 strokes and diesels on LPG - There are 2 stroke kits out there that inject an oil mist in with the LPG in order to keep the engine lubed, but I don't know if it's ever been successful long term. The Diesel kits also still require diesel fuel to be added, although it does apparently make them run more efficiently. My Parents looked into it for their camper as it has an LPG tank for running the cooker, fridge and assorted heaters, but was advised against it because of the installation cost and lower return compared to a petrol engine.
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Re: Alternative Fuels (split thread)

Post by electrokid »

When I was about 6 or 7, dad took me along to work on a Saturday morning - Jaguar Cars at Browns Lane. They had some engines running on 24 hour test - running on town gas - mainly hydrogen, some methane, a bit of CO and some other minor constituents.
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Re: Alternative Fuels (split thread)

Post by Thread Bear »

Do not confuse Biodiesel with veggie oil from supermarkets/cash and carry. The first item link effectively takes you through the conversion of a veggie oil, used or not, to Biodiesel. It states biodiesel is more expensive than diesel. You can see why. Operating at scale would bring the price down but where do you get such a quantity of veggie oil? The chief prob with bunging veggie oil from the supermarket into your diesel is that it does not dissolve together but forms a colloid or emulsion, I forget which. The veggie tends to drop to the bottom of the tank, with any crap that the diesel had in it. It tends to clean off all the crude as well. So to use Veggie means running the car nigh on out of fuel just prior to a service to get all the crap into the filter or you can find yourself needing an interim filter swap. I therefore tend to get some veggie in prior to a service to clean out the system. The engines like a bit of veggie too, especially if you choose supermarket cheapo diesel. It makes it run smoother.

LPG is really only good if you do the miles or can use the tax/fee breaks. I am tempted by the fact I have a Natural gas spur on my one of my plots of land. That could be taped and compressed into vehicle fuel. Unlike the electric network the gas companies cannot measure the currant and identify accurately where they might be loosing energy. Free fuel for a bit sounds rather fun. Get it wrong and it sounds rather loud!

The real driving force for me is to get off the high tax and the reliance on a utility system that can break down very quickly. The idea of a lower or unpopular grade of available fuel appeals, as it should be cheaper, being less taxed, and most people unable to use it. Older two strokes can run on Paraffin or Kerosene, for instance. I believe the original Range Rovers could, again in part for battlefield conditions. So in a war after the supplies are rationed, and a few high nukes have frazzled the electrics, it will be tatty old Land Rovers, two strokes and such that will be the only things moving, unless some XUDs have access to fuel. It might be a lack of LHM that does for us!
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Re: Alternative Fuels (split thread)

Post by mds141 »

I think one of these would be handy in a post apocalyptic Britain...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M35_2%C2%B ... argo_truck" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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2000 XM VSX 2.1 td Auto. Rouge Magenta.
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Re: Alternative Fuels (split thread)

Post by KevR »

Thread Bear wrote:
LPG is really only good if you do the miles or can use the tax/fee breaks. I am tempted by the fact I have a Natural gas spur on my one of my plots of land. That could be taped and compressed into vehicle fuel. Unlike the electric network the gas companies cannot measure the currant and identify accurately where they might be loosing energy. Free fuel for a bit sounds rather fun. Get it wrong and it sounds rather loud!
Perkins have been doing lots of work on running commercial engines on natural gas over the past decade - it wasn't just a case of plumbing up an existing engine....

If you really want post-apocalyptic autonomy, maybe it's time to buy yourself a small coal mine (or a forest, but how many of those will be left after the ballon goes up...?) and build a gazogéne...
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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