front end shunt - f***! Insurance claim advice please.

[tim]

Just when you're having a nice day some bastard comes along and spoils it. This morning a Merc pulled out in front of me from a side road. Wet road, downhill slope, nowhere to go. Slow speed crunch but bad enough... the r.h. headlamp was smashed along with the indicator, the bumper took minor damage and the front impact crossbar has a nice buckle in it so I can't shut the bonnet which also has minor buckling.
My first thought was that the insurance company might write the car off. We all know how keen they are to do this to older wagons and even if my claim was for say £300 which would cover it, they might still try it. However, the Merc came off worse than I did so he is going to have to go through his insurance regardless. I did think about repairing the damage quickly and then saying "thanks chaps already finished, don't worry about the write off". I recall reading a thread on this forum on that subject. But then I might not get any money for it. I was advised that I might well get into grief if I don't tell them, as the other driver will certainly be going through the system himself. I'm also told that the thing to do is to say that I am retaining salvage rights as soon as I contact them, and also to get the legal expenses claim going from day 1 as after 31 days it apparently stops being available if you haven't asked for it!
I can obviously get a 'suitable' quote locally but this might be trumped by the official engineer from either insurance company and if they say it's going to be £1000 then it will be instant write-off. I am told I can still retain the car, and they can't take it away from me, but I wonder what might occur if it was then officially written off. Apparently I'd still be able to keep and use it but it might require a test if I was to sell her on (which is not in the plan).
So where to go - 1) say nowt and fix it at home, some expense but no insurance claim plus no increased premiums etc.
2) ring 'em up and put wheels in motion and just hope that I won't lose control of the situation, 3) pre-empt them by getting the car fixed asap. Any thoughts, chaps??
PS I am still investigating the damage but for now it's the claim side I am concerned with..... more on the damage tomorrow.

[Way2go]

If the other guy is giving details to his insurance company then your reg will enter the insurance companies database which if you don't notify your insurer could invalidate your continuing insurance. They have clauses that you must notify them of all accidents irrespective of blame or damage.

Write-off as a result is highly likely but don't take first offer & gather evidence of what similar cars are being sold for to influence a fairer settlement. Insist that they offer the remains of the car to you for a salvage price if you want to arrange your own repairs.

A friend has just had an accident and the arrangements it would seem are becoming ever more complicated. His Insurer insists that the car will be removed to a salvage yard some 50 miles away and even though driveable and just has minor damage will be written off according to the telehone conversation he had with the insurance company. No Assessor at this point, decision just based on age and value. Possibly no Assessor will be involved as apparently the new procedure is that the salvage yard collects the car just takes photo's of the damage back at base which they then send to the insurance company. If this happens I don't know the best way round it but hopefully another member will along to advise on this twist.

[JayW]

You CANNOT avoid telling your insurer, they will send you a letter in due course as soon as the other guy registers his claim.

Irrespective of who YOU feel is at fault, they will still look into it, unless you're going to hold your hands up.

From Experience:

I had a VERY MINOR car park ding last year, I clipped the rear wheel arch of an old Mk1 Megane coupe with the old silver TGD (less than 12 hours after buying it). The owner was nonplussed so i hoped he wouldn't claim, 2 weeks later got a letter from my insurance scowling at me to report the details. Told them there was no damage to mine (which there wasn't) and it needed no repairs. They wrote off the Megane at a total cost of £955.

I paid no excess as that only applies if my car needs repairing.

So, your best bet may be to tell them yours doesn't need repairing and you don't wish to claim for it, just the other guys.

No excess, no bill and no money. But, no write off!

[tim]

OK, looks like I can't avoid telling them. But just the above reinforces my gut feeling that trying to claim money for this would be more trouble than it's worth even though the other guy is completely at fault. The most expensive bit would be straightening the front cross piece, unfortunately this can't wait as I need to be able to shut the bonnet properly! It seems to me that if this really is the current state of affairs then everybody on this Forum is affected.
I think it may also depend on the company? Mine is Saga. I was told that Red Star for instance refuse to accept any valuations other than their own, unless pushed.
We have a spare bonnet, wing and a box of lamps, the major expense would be the cross piece and panel-beating on the damaged bonnet and wing. Can anyone suggest a 'safe' top figure to claim which would go a distance towards recouping costs without pushing the 'writeoff' button? As I said above, I believe that the car will still remain mine as they can't take it away so I could fix it and still continue to use it. However, something just occurred to me writing that last line. If it was officially 'written off', this would appear on the records. Would someone then be willing to insure it?? And that bit about the salvage yard worries me - if it went there, would I ever get it back?

[tim]

OK, just been trawling the search button, and the following points seem to crop up frequently. If I claim, my premium will go up regardless. (Already knew that one....) If I claim off the other guy, the same will still happen because these guys share all the info, so my own insurers will get the snots when they find out I didn't report a prang I was involved in. If the car is written off I will need a new MOT immediately afterwards and I will need to reinsure from scratch. I may also have to have it checked further before I am able to get insurance from anyone. And there's the NCB as well.... cock.
What is the realistic write-off value for a 92 19TXD Estate with 144,000 miles up? Not good I suspect but I know that certain forum regulars helped out with someone's case recently and came up with some figures.
The repairs will cost me. But trying to claim for it might well cost me as much. Happy New Year to all Mercedes drivers. Not. Still, I could drive home, he couldn't, not with the wheel at that angle.

[Tommot]

Sorry to hear about your predicament Tim, i've no helpful advice but just wanted to express my disdain with insurers. They are worse than organised crime gangs, stealing money from the public and are legally allowed to do it. Disgusting. Rant over.

Hope you manage to get it shorted!

[mds141]

This might help..http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/c ... idents.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[MULLEY]

I thought a no fault claim meant that that you could ask the other chaps insurer to put your vechicle back into its pre-accident condition period, regardless of the cost??

[really?]

Hi Tim,

Reallys Mum here.

Had a shunt a year ago, my fault totally. Folded my bonnet on a Toyota, bumper broken, Grill twisted. The other car not too bad, bit of a dent on the boot only, they claimed on my insurance, my annual payment went up £200 pa, not really that bad and I didnt claim because the car was only £500 to start with, albeit a one owner good condition.

My car was not a write off because of not claiming, was not recorded so didn't come up on a V.I.C. check and I repaired it myself for a cost of about £200, although the paint job was a bit zebraish but didn't matter as the car was virtually valueless and I'm not that proud and do not own any labels either!

The car still got me around from A to Z and have recently sold it for £350.

[JayW]

Reallys Mum did pretty much the same as me and i'd feel that's always the way to go with a low value car.

Essentially, keep your car as is, no papertrail and a bit of an increase in premiums.

Claim for it and it all gets complicated, expensive (you'll have to pay your excess) and troublesome!



In my opinion, £300 damage would write-off most regular BX's, that's essentially a wing, paint & labour.

You could go for "Agrreed value", mine is £1050 with zero excess, but it did cost me £26 for the certification!

Seriously, you'll almost never come out on top with insurance in the long run!

[citronut]

why should the merc driver gat away scot free and just forfeiting there eccess, and an increase in there next premium,

i think you should claim,
if it comes out as you not to blaim at all ( which in this case it should ),
you will get all your excess refunded to you, and it will/should not affect your next years premium in the slightest,

if you tell them straight off, you are retaining salvage rights, they can not remove the car from your property,
unless the car is structurally damaged,
which it sound like its not

regards malcolm

[tim]

Thanks for all that, chaps. As far as the other driver is concerned, he was very sorry (didn't help) and did all the right stuff. I don't think he's got away with anything; his car is a mess, needed recovery, and will be off the road until a garage has sorted it out. He can't avoid claiming on insurance and yes, I'll be reporting it if only so that my side of the story is on the record. He hasn't got a leg to stand on.I have his details and there is nothing to STOP me claiming, but it won't be out of his personal pocket and I suspect his premium and ncb is stuffed already.
My prime concern is to avoid having the car written off. Yes, it would be great if I could have it fixed at his insurance company's expense and drive away scot free but I have a suspicious nature. I can't help thinking that the best thing is to fix it NOW and if it costs me a bit more than I hope, I can say to the insurance company,job done, here's a bill for £200 or whatever. I do recall seeing a posting in which somebody said they'd done exactly that. But I can't find it now, about two years old maybe.
I think Jay is right, anything more might be dangerously close to what would be the shutoff point. It's like finding out if the dog is on the other side of the door by putting your hand through the letterbox. These people are not my friends....And once the wheels start rolling I may not be allowed to pull out, salvage rights not withstanding. I want to keep the car, I've done a hell of a lot of work on it and am not interested in being bunged £400 or so because they want to scrap it. Bloody minefield, innit? Hence this posting..... and it's still pissing down so I haven't been able to do any more work on the car. Aargh.

[Mothman]

Ile bring the scrappers bonnet around to you tomorrow Tim, not going out in this stuff anymore today. Thank goodness it was red!!

Andy

[citronut]

Tim
it is your property till any deal is struck!!!!,

as i said tell then you are retaining salvage rights, and they are not removing the car from your property,

you employ them

regards malcolm

[JayW]

The days of a "statutory" right of salvage are long gone, many insurance companies reserve the right of absolution over any claim. For example, If you insist you want £2000 for your £500 car they can just pay you market value if an agreement can't be reached. Of course, you could go to small claims court but you just wouldn't because of the overall cost.

Thinking you "employ" an insurance company is a little niave, you just pay for a service based upon all their rules and small-print which you accept when you take out the policy.

Salvage rights will be noted in your policy clauses and quite often are not available on "modern" policies, "classics" policies do quite often offer salvage rights but you'd still need to check. In most cases a "total loss" claim would require the title of the car to be signed over to the insurer.

Pretty much back to the "Hand through the letterbox" analogy of Tims. Again, the same reason i didn't claim when the TGD-turbo got reversed into by a BMW, wing + door skin = write-off.