Dead electric windows - advice needed on where to check

BX Tech talk
User avatar
citsncycles
Over 2k
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:14 pm
Location: Dursley, Gloucestershire

Dead electric windows - advice needed on where to check

Post by citsncycles » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:43 am

Got home Saturday and went to shut the windows on Timex and both were dead - had to run leads from the battery to the motors in the end!

It's not fuses (I blew those while poking around one of the switch connectors :oops: ). Electrics is probably my weakest area, so any pointers would be greatfully received, particularly which of the wires from theis switch I should be tracing backwards:

Image
Mike Sims
BX 19RD Estate Mk1 - Timex!
BX 4X4 Estate - Oh god, I've done it again!
BX 17RD MK1 - it called to me!
BX14 TGE, - SOLD
XM Turbo SD,GS Club Estate,Visa 17D Leader,HY Pickup,Dyane Nomad,Dyane 6,2CV AZL,Falcon S,Trabant P50,3x Land Rovers (88" series 1,109" series 2a FFR,series 2a Marshall ambulance),DKW F7, Lambretta LD150 x 1.5,Mobylette SP93,Ural Cossack,Ural M63,CZ 250 Sport,Honda Varadero 125,lots of bicycles & tricycles including (but not only) Sunbeams,Higgins & Bates!

citronut
Over 2k
Posts: 2781
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:55 am
Location: EAST SUSSEX UK

Re: Dead electric windows - advice needed on where to check

Post by citronut » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:00 am

forst place i would look is the wires between door and shell

regards malcolm
curent ride
K reg BX 17TD TZD est
also own
K reg D special

no longer have
H reg CX saffari 2.5 TRI (now gone to Malaysia)
R reg xantia 1.9TD est (gone to meet its maker)

User avatar
citsncycles
Over 2k
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:14 pm
Location: Dursley, Gloucestershire

Re: Dead electric windows - advice needed on where to check

Post by citsncycles » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:19 am

I know I have an issue on the driver's side that sometimes stops the window closing (may be one of this weekend's jobs), but I can't see why that should stop both windows working in either direction simultaneously, unless the switches are on the 'earth' side of the circuit I suppose - I've never really played with electric windows before, a lot of my previous cars didn't even have winders!
Mike Sims
BX 19RD Estate Mk1 - Timex!
BX 4X4 Estate - Oh god, I've done it again!
BX 17RD MK1 - it called to me!
BX14 TGE, - SOLD
XM Turbo SD,GS Club Estate,Visa 17D Leader,HY Pickup,Dyane Nomad,Dyane 6,2CV AZL,Falcon S,Trabant P50,3x Land Rovers (88" series 1,109" series 2a FFR,series 2a Marshall ambulance),DKW F7, Lambretta LD150 x 1.5,Mobylette SP93,Ural Cossack,Ural M63,CZ 250 Sport,Honda Varadero 125,lots of bicycles & tricycles including (but not only) Sunbeams,Higgins & Bates!

citronut
Over 2k
Posts: 2781
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:55 am
Location: EAST SUSSEX UK

Re: Dead electric windows - advice needed on where to check

Post by citronut » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:33 am

i have seen broken wires in one side door shut causing both front windows to function at all,

just mind you add/extend the wires were you repair/join them, so you can place the joints inside the A post,

if the joints are inthe door shut they dont last long

regards malcolm
curent ride
K reg BX 17TD TZD est
also own
K reg D special

no longer have
H reg CX saffari 2.5 TRI (now gone to Malaysia)
R reg xantia 1.9TD est (gone to meet its maker)

User avatar
citsncycles
Over 2k
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:14 pm
Location: Dursley, Gloucestershire

Re: Dead electric windows - advice needed on where to check

Post by citsncycles » Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:02 pm

Ah OK, I suspect I know where the issue is then. Thanks.
Mike Sims
BX 19RD Estate Mk1 - Timex!
BX 4X4 Estate - Oh god, I've done it again!
BX 17RD MK1 - it called to me!
BX14 TGE, - SOLD
XM Turbo SD,GS Club Estate,Visa 17D Leader,HY Pickup,Dyane Nomad,Dyane 6,2CV AZL,Falcon S,Trabant P50,3x Land Rovers (88" series 1,109" series 2a FFR,series 2a Marshall ambulance),DKW F7, Lambretta LD150 x 1.5,Mobylette SP93,Ural Cossack,Ural M63,CZ 250 Sport,Honda Varadero 125,lots of bicycles & tricycles including (but not only) Sunbeams,Higgins & Bates!

User avatar
electrokid
1K Away
1K Away
Posts: 1764
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 2:14 pm
Location: Woking

Re: Dead electric windows - advice needed on where to check

Post by electrokid » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:24 pm

Yes - wiring between door and body most likely place...
unless the switches are on the 'earth' side of the circuit I suppose
Motors that have to be driven in both directions have slightly strange switching - the switches have to swap the polarity of the feed to the motors to get them to move in either direction so neither of the motor connections is permanently connected to either +12 or to ground if that makes sense.
1992 BX19 TGD estate 228K Rusty - SORNed
2002 C5 HDi SX estate

User avatar
citsncycles
Over 2k
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:14 pm
Location: Dursley, Gloucestershire

Re: Dead electric windows - advice needed on where to check

Post by citsncycles » Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:00 pm

I did start to realise this when I was trying to get the window to go up - didn't help of course when one of the local know-all's stopped for a chat mind!
Mike Sims
BX 19RD Estate Mk1 - Timex!
BX 4X4 Estate - Oh god, I've done it again!
BX 17RD MK1 - it called to me!
BX14 TGE, - SOLD
XM Turbo SD,GS Club Estate,Visa 17D Leader,HY Pickup,Dyane Nomad,Dyane 6,2CV AZL,Falcon S,Trabant P50,3x Land Rovers (88" series 1,109" series 2a FFR,series 2a Marshall ambulance),DKW F7, Lambretta LD150 x 1.5,Mobylette SP93,Ural Cossack,Ural M63,CZ 250 Sport,Honda Varadero 125,lots of bicycles & tricycles including (but not only) Sunbeams,Higgins & Bates!

User avatar
citsncycles
Over 2k
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:14 pm
Location: Dursley, Gloucestershire

Re: Dead electric windows - advice needed on where to check

Post by citsncycles » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:33 pm

Now I'm confused. Replaced the fuse I blew yesterday which restored the central locking. Discovered today that the front wiper wasn't working. Replaced that fuse and breifly got the windows back too until the fuse went again. I then had to disconnect the passenger window motor in order to avoid blowing the wiper fuse.
Mike Sims
BX 19RD Estate Mk1 - Timex!
BX 4X4 Estate - Oh god, I've done it again!
BX 17RD MK1 - it called to me!
BX14 TGE, - SOLD
XM Turbo SD,GS Club Estate,Visa 17D Leader,HY Pickup,Dyane Nomad,Dyane 6,2CV AZL,Falcon S,Trabant P50,3x Land Rovers (88" series 1,109" series 2a FFR,series 2a Marshall ambulance),DKW F7, Lambretta LD150 x 1.5,Mobylette SP93,Ural Cossack,Ural M63,CZ 250 Sport,Honda Varadero 125,lots of bicycles & tricycles including (but not only) Sunbeams,Higgins & Bates!

citronut
Over 2k
Posts: 2781
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:55 am
Location: EAST SUSSEX UK

Re: Dead electric windows - advice needed on where to check

Post by citronut » Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:03 pm

just remembered another thing that can stop the windows operating,

a customer of mine has an A reg MK1 BX, before we fitted a new ignition lock/switch, if the windows stoped working you could rock the key from side to side and get them to work again,

regards malcolm
curent ride
K reg BX 17TD TZD est
also own
K reg D special

no longer have
H reg CX saffari 2.5 TRI (now gone to Malaysia)
R reg xantia 1.9TD est (gone to meet its maker)

User avatar
citsncycles
Over 2k
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:14 pm
Location: Dursley, Gloucestershire

Re: Dead electric windows - advice needed on where to check

Post by citsncycles » Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:15 pm

Well there's definately wear there too - I'm planning to follow Mat's instructions for installing a set of relays in the ignition wiring.
Mike Sims
BX 19RD Estate Mk1 - Timex!
BX 4X4 Estate - Oh god, I've done it again!
BX 17RD MK1 - it called to me!
BX14 TGE, - SOLD
XM Turbo SD,GS Club Estate,Visa 17D Leader,HY Pickup,Dyane Nomad,Dyane 6,2CV AZL,Falcon S,Trabant P50,3x Land Rovers (88" series 1,109" series 2a FFR,series 2a Marshall ambulance),DKW F7, Lambretta LD150 x 1.5,Mobylette SP93,Ural Cossack,Ural M63,CZ 250 Sport,Honda Varadero 125,lots of bicycles & tricycles including (but not only) Sunbeams,Higgins & Bates!

User avatar
David
BXpert
BXpert
Posts: 335
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:54 pm
Location: Manchester
x 2

Re: Dead electric windows - advice needed on where to check

Post by David » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:03 pm

If both sides have failed I can't see it being broken wires. I have looked at the wiring of the windows & the way the switches are set up, they send negative to the motors all the time on both terminals. When you press the switch it changes over one of the contacts to make it live - thus moving the motor. I would start at the fuse & relay. Try swapping the relay over with another one as I've seen them fail even though they appear to be working. (I had this just yesterday on the fog lights).

If the fuses are blowing then you could have a bare wire somewhere, If it blows as soon as you put power to the circuit, then its between the fuse box & switch(es). If it blows when a switch is pressed, it is between the switch & motor on the side you press (for example, if you press 'down' & it works, but press 'up' & it blows then its the 'up' wire).

The relay mod is highly recommended. For years I thought I had a faulty starter motor & after doing the mod I haven't had any more trouble. It also stops the dash lights dimming.

Hope that helps.
1992 Citroën BX 1.9 Diesel Meteor 4x4 - The Project.

1992 Citroën BX 1.9 TXD (with GTI engine; Mulleys old car) - Parts car.

2004 Citroën Xsara Desire. (Now gone).

2011 Ford Focus Zetec - Daily Driver. (Absolute bone shaker).