Rear Sphere Removal

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kiwi
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Rear Sphere Removal

Post by kiwi » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:10 am

It had to happen eventually.

The TXD rear spheres have gone a bit hard, there is very little bounce at the rear corners. Ideally I would like to get the whole lot repressurised but at the moment that is not an option given my location.

So an interim fix is to use two spheres I can recall are not dead out of the TZS. Removing them was surprisingly easy given the car has been without suspension system for several months and parked up. Probably just over hand tight...easy

The problem is the TXD is not so happy to yield. I cant budge either with not much leverage being on a set of car ramps, what I can say is both are fitted with valves the nearside (exhaust side) is at a right angle so not to knock against the exhaust I guess? Which got me to wonder can they be repressurised without removing?

If not would either leaving it longer as in a couple of days reduce the pressure further inside the spheres? Yes I did put it in low and release the screw on the accumulator, I recall recently taking a solid front sphere off the TRS getting showered despite taking the correct precautions. Kind want to avoid that and I also noted the cylinders move a bit behind the rear spheres (hence never done a set before in 20 plus of BX ownership).

Other than that only option is go to local mechs and hope they can budge them.
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91

citronut
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Re: Rear Sphere Removal

Post by citronut » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:32 am

firstly you need to set the car at its highest before trying to crack the spheres off,
you really dont want the cylinder rotating by mich at all,

secondly if the suspension is that hard its unlikely those spheres will take a re/gas,

as the bladder is likely ruptured,

you can check if this is the case by unscrewing the valve and if you get citro blood coming out you know the bladder is ruptured/cream crackered

regards malcolm
curent ride
K reg BX 17TD TZD est
also own
K reg D special

no longer have
H reg CX saffari 2.5 TRI (now gone to Malaysia)
R reg xantia 1.9TD est (gone to meet its maker)

kiwi
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Re: Rear Sphere Removal

Post by kiwi » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:03 am

Hang on a sec if you put it at its highest then its still under pressure???? correct????

Yes I suspect the spheres are no longer gas able, hence using the spares I have until I can get them checked out. Lets put it this way I have 4 BXs here that gives me 6 spares to work with.
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91

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mat_fenwick
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Re: Rear Sphere Removal

Post by mat_fenwick » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:42 am

kiwi wrote:Hang on a sec if you put it at its highest then its still under pressure???? correct????
That's right. But only leave it on high until you've cracked them off, then release system pressure. This locks the cylinder more solidly so it doesn't rotate whilst trying to undo the sphere, and prevents damage to the pipe.

If the sphere is stiff all the way while loosening, it's likely the membrane has ruptured and it's still under pressure, so brace yourself for a faceful of LHM!
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kiwi
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Re: Rear Sphere Removal

Post by kiwi » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:48 am

mat_fenwick wrote: so brace yourself for a faceful of LHM!
[-X Yea thats the bit I was afraid of having had a faceful before...lol
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91

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Re: Rear Sphere Removal

Post by Defender110 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:11 am

You can undo very stubborn spheres quite easily by using a cold chisel and hammer on the centre seam knocking the sphere anti-clock wise, obviously with the very stubborn ones this may cause some damage to the outer casing but if they are the buggered ones anyway you have nothing to loose? And again obviously don't try this on a pressurised sphere.
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demag
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Re: Rear Sphere Removal

Post by demag » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:36 am

By setting your suspension to high you have maximum pressure in the system which locks the cylinder in position protecting the pipe from damage. You then use your removal tool to just get the sphere to undo about 1/4 of a turn. Now release the pressure and the sphere should undo.
Dave.

2004 C5 Exclusive Estate 2.2hdi automatic.
1990 Bx TGS automatic.

citronut
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Re: Rear Sphere Removal

Post by citronut » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:39 pm

in all the years i have worked on around and under hydraulic Citroens i have never had to use the hammer and chisel approach,

i do own a genuine cit sphere removal tool which is a heavy spring steel band which is tighten via a pinch bolt, this is welded to a hefty square steel bar, clamp it to the sphere and give the bar a sharp wallop with a lump hammer,

i also have a Stanley 30cm pipe chain wrench with has never let me down even with a two foot tube on the end,

regardas malcolm
curent ride
K reg BX 17TD TZD est
also own
K reg D special

no longer have
H reg CX saffari 2.5 TRI (now gone to Malaysia)
R reg xantia 1.9TD est (gone to meet its maker)

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demag
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Re: Rear Sphere Removal

Post by demag » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:38 pm

I had to resort to a rather long tube on the rear of the Xm once. :lol: There was just enough room under the back to lie there, brace my feet and pull like sh*t on the tube. Did the trick after about four tries! :D I think that was a big chain wrench, the sphere tool kept skidding round.
Dave.

2004 C5 Exclusive Estate 2.2hdi automatic.
1990 Bx TGS automatic.

kiwi
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Re: Rear Sphere Removal

Post by kiwi » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:40 pm

Well thanks guys I am limited to a chain wrench and probably a bit of scaffold pole if it will fit under the car. If this attempt fails it will be down to the local mechs for the old hoist to inleash theses spheres however I can already predict the moaning about ding the job before asking.

Failing all that then up to Hamilton for the day and get the expert on the job (with luck).
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91

tim
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Re: Rear Sphere Removal

Post by tim » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:57 pm

Before doing that, may I suggest comparing the cost of the proper removal tool against the cost of the garage charges? Plus the fact that they will probably charge double what you could buy spheres for....several years back I was quoted £40 each for spheres when you could have them from AEP for £21.00. Mothman bought a cheapie a while aback and both he and I have needed to use it on several occasions.

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demag
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Re: Rear Sphere Removal

Post by demag » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:31 pm

Yes you want a big one with a beefy chain and some good teeth to grip the sphere, mine is a Record 240. I dare say you could go even bigger. I always squirt a dose of WD40 around the cylinder/sphere joint and let it soak in.
Dave.

2004 C5 Exclusive Estate 2.2hdi automatic.
1990 Bx TGS automatic.

kiwi
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Re: Rear Sphere Removal

Post by kiwi » Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:43 am

Nope they are not going to budge with what tools I have available and the limited space to lever while under the car.

Its going to be worth 30 minutes labour to get these loosened thats all I need to have done. Once they are loose replace with spare spheres and at a later date get these looked at by the proper person.

JUst the hassle getting it in to them and the best bit! Telling them how to do it....lol
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91

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Re: Rear Sphere Removal

Post by rutter123 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:11 pm

dont forget to undo the bleed screw on the FDV a turn or so this will release any pressure left in the system and stop you loosing too much of the green stuff. once new spheres are fitted bleed system. i use a good heavy duty oil filter chain and wrench to undo mine then do them up by hand and nip them up a little more is usually tight enough.
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citronut
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Re: Rear Sphere Removal

Post by citronut » Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:11 pm

rutter123 wrote:dont forget to undo the bleed screw on the FDV
a what,where [-X #-o :roll: :-" :-? :-o :) :wink:

regards malcolm
curent ride
K reg BX 17TD TZD est
also own
K reg D special

no longer have
H reg CX saffari 2.5 TRI (now gone to Malaysia)
R reg xantia 1.9TD est (gone to meet its maker)