Weird LHM leak at axles plus leak at accumulator

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ritmo
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Weird LHM leak at axles plus leak at accumulator

Post by ritmo » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:28 pm

Next issue.

This is a really strange one. I have a slight leak somewhere on the front axles of Betty. I have had a hard look, given up and put the car in to my trusted local classic citroen specialist. He couldn't find the cause either.

Worth noting:

- I have replaced my octo-f**k manifold with a home made job up in the engine bay. All my pipework seems fine (including the strut return pipes which was my initial suspicion). I have fitted clear pipes at the reservoir end, so I can see LHM is returning fine.
- Slow leak, 1L of LHM over about 200miles.
- Leak seems to be directed to the inside of my alloys and onto tyres, so you don't actually see a drip. And no puddles around the tyres when parked, so I don't think it's leaking when not in use.
- Accumulator is sounding (fast tick) like it needs replaced and actually has a slow leak at the seal there also. Planning on replacing it.
- I think I can hear a hissing sound at full steering lock. Wonder if there could be a leak here which only shows itself at full lock. Garage checked for this, but said no leak. Strange to have hiss though?

Has anyone experienced this? Got a fix. I know old citroens leak. But they shouldn't and I don't want it to.

Thanks

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mat_fenwick
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Re: Weird LHM leak at axles plus leak at accumulator

Post by mat_fenwick » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:51 pm

I'd be suspecting brake calipers - I've seen leaks via the handbrake mechanism a couple of times. The rubber boot was swelling and oozing when brakes were applied, which seems to fit your symptoms. Odd that both would fail at the same time though.
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ritmo
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Re: Weird LHM leak at axles plus leak at accumulator

Post by ritmo » Thu May 01, 2014 1:00 pm

I agree, thought it would be the callipers also. Should have noted that. I had the garage check them also, as I couldn't see any issue with them.

Seems quite unlikely, especially since one of the callipers was replaced for a new/refurbed unit a couple of years ago, would be strange if both had problems at the same time now.

You don't think the power steering could be the issue? I guess I would see a trail coming down the tracking arms?

Thanks.

citronut
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Re: Weird LHM leak at axles plus leak at accumulator

Post by citronut » Thu May 01, 2014 1:38 pm

ritmo wrote: You don't think the power steering could be the issue? I guess I would see a trail coming down the tracking arms?

Thanks.
its unlikely you would see it coming down the rack arms/track rods if the rack were leaking,

as the only points at which it could leak are from the pinion were the column joins the rack,
or the ram which lays across the back face of the rack


regards malcolm
curent ride
K reg BX 17TD TZD est
also own
K reg D special

no longer have
H reg CX saffari 2.5 TRI (now gone to Malaysia)
R reg xantia 1.9TD est (gone to meet its maker)

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JayW
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Re: Weird LHM leak at axles plus leak at accumulator

Post by JayW » Thu May 01, 2014 1:47 pm

I currently have a similar leak, mine's coming from a small crack (rust related) in the steel (coiled) pipe from the FDV to th rack. This is displaying itself all over the place including the wheels, but only whilst the system is pressured (running/stering). Fortunately, i have a spare!

As you have also been playing with the pipes, consider that the strut leak-offs may not be positioned correctly? It happens!
I have zero patience for your tedium.

citronut
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Re: Weird LHM leak at axles plus leak at accumulator

Post by citronut » Thu May 01, 2014 8:11 pm

the other point to look at is the metal pipes under each front chassis rail that the strut return pipes plug onto

regards malcolm
curent ride
K reg BX 17TD TZD est
also own
K reg D special

no longer have
H reg CX saffari 2.5 TRI (now gone to Malaysia)
R reg xantia 1.9TD est (gone to meet its maker)

ritmo
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Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:07 pm
Location: Glasgow

Re: Weird LHM leak at axles plus leak at accumulator

Post by ritmo » Sat May 03, 2014 8:59 am

Thanks. I'll get looking into those places and hopefully find the problem. I'll keep you informed.

Jake

ritmo
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Re: Weird LHM leak at axles plus leak at accumulator

Post by ritmo » Sat May 17, 2014 12:29 pm

Well, I've had a check of these areas and still no joy. Dropped her into my local Citroen guy here in Glasgow. They're also at a loss for a definitive answer. No leaks under pressure and braking when up on the ramps. So they cleaned it all up and took her around the block, leaking again. We can only think that the struts are leaking under use. My regulator housing is also leaking from the back end.

I've read through these instructions on refurbishing the struts: http://citroen.tramontana.co.hu/suspens ... ont-struts

Seems do-able. But really I would like some spare struts to do the work on and then do a straight swap-out. Anyone know of a good source (or have some) for struts? I would consider new or 2nd hand ones.

Would also like to sort this regulator housing. Garage man told me the seal can be replaced, but it's a bit hit or miss doing it right. Could someone point me in the right direction of a good set of instructions? Or have some advice?

Strangely, all these leaky problems have come about since I made a replacement Octopus manifold. I don't seem to have any leaks from the manifold or my pipework, but I wonder if the different manifold (or its new location in the engine bay) has caused these issues.

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Re: Weird LHM leak at axles plus leak at accumulator

Post by citronut » Sat May 17, 2014 12:58 pm

here is price and part No. for the regulator end cap O ring from citroen


Part Number Description Quantity Price excl. VAT Price incl. VAT Total incl. VAT Selection
96157736 HYD OIL O-RING 1.35 GBP 1.62 GBP 1.62 GBP

to remove the end cap for fitting the new O ring you need the regulator on the bench,

i compress the end cap with a large valve spring compressor,

screw a long bolt into the mounting bolt hole, then with the sphere removed, place a plate of steel over the open end of the regulator to stop the spring compressor entering the open end of the regulator,

now clamp the spring compressor in a vise and place the regulator in the spring compressor,

as you put the pressure on with the spring compressor you will need to tap it to help the end cap being compressed inwards,
from
once you have the end cap pressed in you can now remove the circlip from its groove,

on releasing the spring compressor you might need to tap the side of the regulator body to help the end plug come out as it is quite deep so will bind,

now clean the O ring groove and inside the regulator body, fit the neqw O ring and bung it back together

regards malcolm
curent ride
K reg BX 17TD TZD est
also own
K reg D special

no longer have
H reg CX saffari 2.5 TRI (now gone to Malaysia)
R reg xantia 1.9TD est (gone to meet its maker)

ritmo
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Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:07 pm
Location: Glasgow

Re: Weird LHM leak at axles plus leak at accumulator

Post by ritmo » Sat May 17, 2014 1:09 pm

Nice! Thanks. Doesn't sound like too bad a job.

Had a read of this: http://citroen.tramontana.co.hu/suspens ... -regulator

Seems like he's talking of a few seals. Is there only one to replace?

Also I've heard talk of drilling to reach the seal, doesn't seem like I have to do that in either of these instructions.

Do you think I would get away with a modified G-clamp for the valve compressor?

Thanks.

citronut
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Re: Weird LHM leak at axles plus leak at accumulator

Post by citronut » Sat May 17, 2014 7:27 pm

ritmo wrote:
Seems like he's talking of a few seals. Is there only one to replace?
if its leaking at the tail end mounying bracket it is jhust the seal i mention above,

ritmo wrote: Also I've heard talk of drilling to reach the seal,
a FCF ( french car forum ) member did come up with the idea of drilling a small hole in the regulatore body just to poke something through
to push the circlip out,

there is no need to do this with the method i describe above,
ritmo wrote: Do you think I would get away with a modified G-clamp for the valve compressor?

Thanks.
maybe if it is large enough and it would put enough load onto the end cap to compress the heavy spring under it

were are you located

regards malcolm
curent ride
K reg BX 17TD TZD est
also own
K reg D special

no longer have
H reg CX saffari 2.5 TRI (now gone to Malaysia)
R reg xantia 1.9TD est (gone to meet its maker)

ritmo
Confirmed BX'er
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:07 pm
Location: Glasgow

Re: Weird LHM leak at axles plus leak at accumulator

Post by ritmo » Sun May 18, 2014 11:51 am

Will give this a go in a few weeks.

I have a new accumulator sphere which I'm going to fit today. If that fixes my fast tick times (maybe 1 per 5 to 10 seconds) then I guess I just need to fit this front seal that's leaking externally.

If I still have fast tick times, am I right thinking that the accumulator is also leaking internally and I would need to replace all the seals as described in the Tramuntana guide?

If I do need to replace all the seals, do you have the citroen part numbers for those also?

Thanks very much!

citronut
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Re: Weird LHM leak at axles plus leak at accumulator

Post by citronut » Sun May 18, 2014 5:09 pm

ritmo wrote: If I still have fast tick times, am I right thinking that the accumulator is also leaking internally and I would need to replace all the seals as described in the Tramuntana guide?
Thanks very much![/quote]


you mean the regulator,

not nes a celery :) :wink:

you might just need to tap the bleed vavle ball bearing with a copper drift followed by one sharp blow with an ammer

regards malcolm
curent ride
K reg BX 17TD TZD est
also own
K reg D special

no longer have
H reg CX saffari 2.5 TRI (now gone to Malaysia)
R reg xantia 1.9TD est (gone to meet its maker)