BX how safe?

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BX how safe?

Post by Defender110 »

I run my TZD as an everyday commuter for the family as a reliable, comfortable & cheap family hack and have maintained it accordingly with strict servicing and preventative maintenance always using genuine / OEM parts to help guarantee longevity. I bought it with 76,000 genuine miles and have added a further 30,000 in my ownership and it still has loads of life left in it as a rust free well serviced example but just recently I have been questioning whether running the BX as a long term family commuter is wise due to safety concerns compared to modern motors with all their greatly increased safety standards. How safe is the BX in modern times and am I being wise entrusting an old BX to keep my family safe?
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Re: BX how safe?

Post by Dollywobbler »

I drive a 2CV. Safety for me comes more from trying to avoid an accident in the first place. Though as I drive it everywhere flat out, clearly I don't actually care. Older cars are more of a risk in this regard - airbags do save lives. It's a risk I'm happy to live with. Would I be happy to take the risk if I had children? Not sure.

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Re: BX how safe?

Post by JayW »

Despite our general "coke can" attitude towards the BX, it actually appears reasonably good alongside it's peers in all the crash photos i've seen.

No, it's not going to rival modern cars, but the same goes for any 90's "classic".

I'd trust it over the wifes '99 Clio (with airbags) any day.

Although the roads are full of unbelievable morons with Kellog's driving licences, i really wouldn't worry at town speeds, on the motorway maybe, but tbh you're gonna be in trouble in most "run of the mill" cars at that pace.
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Re: BX how safe?

Post by Kitch »

If you're travelling in a BX, you're unquestionably going to come off worse in the majority of accidents than if you were travelling in something newer. It's not just airbags and such, it's crumple zones, energy absorbance and the design of parts to behave in certain ways (like in the Picasso, where the engine will slide underneath in the event of a frontal collision).
And that's taking BXs as they were new. It's all very well saying "ah, but the crash test of the BX shows it wasn't too bad, to the eye at least" but that was then. All the spot welds around the front are rustier than they used to be, as are many of the panels, even in the best examples; there are some areas you just can't get to.

Way I see it, I'm not going to compromise the potential safety of my kids just to satisfy my own desires on the road. I'll take them out occasionally, but the more they travel in something more modern, the safer they're going to be. It's as simple as that, and I didn't shell out on decent car seats for them all to then negate all the advantages of them by placing them in a French tin can from the early 80's :lol:

All very well subscribing to the "well don't crash then" and accident avoidance lark. You could be a brilliant driver.....doesn't mean the chimp coming the other way talking to his phone and fiddling with his iPod is.

Aside from which, I can't fit all five of us into a BX, unless we use the cheapo Graco shitty seats from Asda. I only use those on very rare occasions, and 90% of the time they're in the Picasso with its side-impact, safety cell and airbags. It might all be in vein, as you could die tomorrow in any car. But in terms of managing the risk, it's the best you can do, and when it comes to my kids, I will always do the best I can do.

Just my view - not suggesting I'm right and everyone else is wrong, it's just the way I see it. We all love our kids :)
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Re: BX how safe?

Post by rutter123 »

Judging by the amount of welding i have done on the tzdt, prob not very safe, the bits that have been done are good and will prob outlast the car, but this does not mean that the rest of the car is not metal fatigued in some way or another, but as kitch says the roads are only as safe as the idiots will let ithem become, i drive a truck and see them every day, i-drivers, as i call them usually on the phone/pad or some i gadget checking their facebook as the airbag facepacks them! I personally felt a lot safer in my old xantia, but if we do go out as a family or any distance or to pick up the grandson we will use the rav or my daughters 206 as a "safer" mode of transport.

Was any bx ever fitted with airbags?
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Re: BX how safe?

Post by Leobx16v »

I had a 50mph front end to rear end bash and I was fine the car wasn't (obviously) so I would say they aren't that bad.
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Re: BX how safe?

Post by JayW »

rutter123 wrote: Was any bx ever fitted with airbags?
Nope, certainly not in this country and likely as not, not in any other either.
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Re: BX how safe?

Post by Vanny »

Oh, erm, dont get me started on airbags, i might never stop. Generally you don't want them anyways. Seat belt pre-tensioners are where its at! And don't crash.

Although the BX crash test (on youtube if you look) isn't too bad straight on, high impact crashes dont happen straight on. In the unbelievably common M6 3rd lane shunt, the cars are normally breaking heavily and where in slow traffic anyway, its about the only time you get a nice neat crash.

The more common high speed crash seems to be loosing a corner, be it swerving to miss the car that just slammed on, being cut up and catching someones tail end, being swerved into. There the ones that scare me for the BX. The corners aren't wonderful, but if you get spun and punched in the B-pillar, your going to be in serious trouble.

In my mind the BX has very little side impact protection out of the factory. Then look at all the rotten A-pillars (bubbling windscreens, dropping off doors, holes in the scuttle) and the rotten C-pillar bases (where the rust creeps in around the bottom of the back doors) and tell me how much of the original strength is left? I've seen a fair few B-pillars rotten out at the base behind all that lovely plastic trim. Foot wells in the rear along the fuel tank edge aren't exactly the stiffest.

I accept 2 things when i drive the BX.

1) A shunt will write it off
2) It's going to hurt a lot more than the modern!

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Re: BX how safe?

Post by adamskibx »

The BX was available with ABS brakes, and those ones are way way safer than ones without, particularly on the motorway, and this jump I think is far greater than the jump from an old BX to a modern car with air-bags, albeit a modern car is safer. Also, while I agree that modern cars are passively safer, they are actively less safe as they are more detached and lull drivers into a false sense of security. You know your awake when your in a BX!

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Re: BX how safe?

Post by Tinkley »

I am not too worried about a front or rear shunt, and I've had two as my last car can testify. Yes the new Beemer came off worse (2 weeks old) in the first one and at least the second one took the Astra with it!. I'm with Vanny, the worst thing is a big side impact. Not just the B pillar but the doors are pretty light and would fold quickly. Otherwise I don't think they are too bad, much better than a mid to late 90s Civic which er passes the 94 onwards crash test EU procedure.

If Citroen had thought the BX would pass that 94 test with little modification it might have had a longer production run. Ultimately the test and the model age meant it was better to invest in a new model - the Xantia. Shame they lost the BX size though as ZX smaller etc. Big mistake in my book. Look what size the Focus is - around 4.25 meters. Don't get me started on taking out interior space though and tailgate width, if you can't get a 4' wide sheet in the back I won't buy it, period.

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Re: BX how safe?

Post by adamskibx »

Yes - I agree, a side impact would be catastrophic, and I have been hit by an articulated lorry in a BX, and luckily it's weakness saved me because it was the rear n/s and I was obviously in the front. It was not my fault - it was on a roundabout from the M32 to M5 outside Bristol where there are two exit lanes to leave the roundabout - I was in the fast lane and a lorry which had missed it's correct exit and so theoretically should not have been there (which he admitted) was in the slow lane; I exited, and he didn't - I got spun round 3 times and the rear wheel arms got bent by the curb on the slip road. My BX was toast; The PLASTIC bumper and light of the articulated lorry was unmarked. I would hate to think what would happen if the impact was above 20 MPH, or if there was someone in the back left.

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Re: BX how safe?

Post by Kitch »

adamskibx wrote:The BX was available with ABS brakes, and those ones are way way safer than ones without, particularly on the motorway, and this jump I think is far greater than the jump from an old BX to a modern car with air-bags, albeit a modern car is safer. Also, while I agree that modern cars are passively safer, they are actively less safe as they are more detached and lull drivers into a false sense of security. You know your awake when your in a BX!
Good attempt, but I'd disagree with the majority of that. The difference between a non-ABS BX and an ABS BX? The driver, plain and simple. ABS brakes might help you steer around an obstacle.

However, should you hit that obstacle (or that obstacle hit you) then there are far bigger advancements than ABS brakes. People who love a type of car are going to bury their heads in the sand over a subject such as this, when the plain truth is something everybody knows, deep down at the back of their minds. What you then choose to do with that information is up to you. I enjoy driving mine as much as I can. But would I ferry the kids around on a permanent basis in one? No, there are far better tools for the job. We've only got a ratty ex-taxi Picasso HDi, but it's likely to do a better job of protecting its occupants than a BX in the event of a collision. It's roomier. It's cleaner. It makes the job of ferrying people around easier - it's designed for the job.
Is it fun? Shit no, of course not! But then it's a family wagon; a tool. It's not meant to be fun, it's meant to be good! :lol:

Is the Pic-arsehole a good car? Yes, it's been brilliant. Its time is up in the next year or so, as it's getting a bit old hat for the job and S-Maxes are dropping into budget. They'll do an even better job, and dare I say it, be a bit safer maybe? :lol:
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Re: BX how safe?

Post by Thread Bear »

I am happy as much of my motoring is rural and not on main roads. Statistically more dangerious but you have a greater element of personal choice of risk in how you drive. Nerf zones in built up areas tend to be lower speed. However if I was commuting on fast multi carrageways I might rethink my stratagy. Of course passingers, kids, alter the risk. You have not much right to risk other peoples good health. But as a hack for single person its still a good choice of car in its class. As a classic, it matters not as you do not plan to have an accident. Statistically this is true, hence the cheaper insurance.
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Re: BX how safe?

Post by adamskibx »

Kitch wrote:
adamskibx wrote:The BX was available with ABS brakes, and those ones are way way safer than ones without, particularly on the motorway, and this jump I think is far greater than the jump from an old BX to a modern car with air-bags, albeit a modern car is safer. Also, while I agree that modern cars are passively safer, they are actively less safe as they are more detached and lull drivers into a false sense of security. You know your awake when your in a BX!
Good attempt, but I'd disagree with the majority of that. The difference between a non-ABS BX and an ABS BX? The driver, plain and simple. ABS brakes might help you steer around an obstacle.

However, should you hit that obstacle (or that obstacle hit you) then there are far bigger advancements than ABS brakes. People who love a type of car are going to bury their heads in the sand over a subject such as this, when the plain truth is something everybody knows, deep down at the back of their minds. What you then choose to do with that information is up to you. I enjoy driving mine as much as I can. But would I ferry the kids around on a permanent basis in one? No, there are far better tools for the job. We've only got a ratty ex-taxi Picasso HDi, but it's likely to do a better job of protecting its occupants than a BX in the event of a collision. It's roomier. It's cleaner. It makes the job of ferrying people around easier - it's designed for the job.
Is it fun? Shit no, of course not! But then it's a family wagon; a tool. It's not meant to be fun, it's meant to be good! :lol:

Is the Pic-arsehole a good car? Yes, it's been brilliant. Its time is up in the next year or so, as it's getting a bit old hat for the job and S-Maxes are dropping into budget. They'll do an even better job, and dare I say it, be a bit safer maybe? :lol:
I agree; if I had kids I would choose a more modern car, but I have to disagree about ABS brakes. They are a life saver. I am well aware that I have a BX without and although I feel a good driver I would find it very difficult to find the pressure required to achieve maximum stopping power without skidding in the wet weather, especially in an emergency, and ABS brakes pretty much do this for you. It's something less to think about when an object appears in front of you as you can just stamp on them. As it stands I plan ahead and slow down appropriately in advance of potential slow downs. Funnily enough the best braking car I have ever driven is a 2CV as you could pick a point in the road and know, just know, whether you could stop before it without skidding, and this is the only car where I had this sort of feel to the brakes. The Citroen high pressure system is very very good in the dry but I can't help feeling it causes a lack of intuition in emergencies in the wet.

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Re: BX how safe?

Post by Dollywobbler »

Sorry Adam, I just don't agree on ABS. For the vast majority of drivers, you're absolutely right. But I'd rather have manual ABS. I had to employ cadence braking in the Mk1 BX (which has even less 'feel') to avoid a head on accident with a Merc Sprinter. I managed it. I far prefer to have less electronics yet have the ability to force a lock up when needed. Like in snow. It can be advantageous to actually lock a wheel on snow, as it helps it dig in. ABS on snow and ice can be horrific.

I do agree with 2CVs. As there's no servo, you really do get good pedal feel. I've done plenty of cadence braking in one of those too. It's a seriously useful skill, rendered obsolete by the ABS generation.