SORN B______S

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Tinkley
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SORN B______S

Post by Tinkley »

Yesterday had to tax one car and SORN the other. The latter is CAT D so you don't get a reminder, but still get fined if you forget. Anyway try and SORN it by telephone, should be easy?

Auto voice goes through spiel and all OK until it says 'This vehicle requires SORN from 1st January 2050'...... Well that was certainly news to me, I was not aware of a 36 year window...

As it semed a bit odd, I got it to repeat the date and it confirmed 'Jan 1st 2050' then said 'Do you still want to declare SORN' to which I confirmed. Of course if I do not get confirmation, I will be fined etc and as I do not have a reminder or a recording of the conversation I have no proof of the telephone 'conversation' taking place. So watch out for this weird DVLA auto telephone behaviour. You can guarantee they will have mysteriously 'lost' their own record of the conversation if they wish to fine me. Partly why I have posted here, so there is a record that may be referred too.... :wink:

citronut
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Re: SORN B______S

Post by citronut »

its way easier to go to

https://www.taxdisc.direct.gov.uk/EvlPo ... home/intro

and do these things online, were you can also check the recorded current state of play on DVLA's data base,

also SORN will not get an ongoing reminder anymore as it used to, you just declare it SORN once, this state does not change then until you report what you intend to do next with the car ( tax/scrap???? )

regards malcolm
curent ride
K reg BX 17TD TZD est
also own
K reg D special

no longer have
H reg CX saffari 2.5 TRI (now gone to Malaysia)
R reg xantia 1.9TD est (gone to meet its maker)

Tinkley
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Re: SORN B______S

Post by Tinkley »

That is OK, - maybe. I had by law to declare SORN on that car last year. All my other SORN m/cycles get an annual reminder but not the old BX as it requires a VIC (rip off£40) as still same original car. So no reminder, no sent info, or any other communucation affecting said vehicle other than perhaps some online stuff (nice if you have no internet access) for that vehicle. Thereby still liable to a fine if not declared SORN.

I understood the SORN perpetuity was valid only from October this year. Otherwise why should I need a tax disc? (for the runner) even if already paid for. It is just some glitch that exists in the nomans land between the old system and the new; but sure as hell it will be a revenue earner for the Chancellor.

citronut
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Re: SORN B______S

Post by citronut »

Tinkley wrote: but not the old BX as it requires a VIC (rip off£40)
it will only require a VIC test if it is sold/change of registered keeper after it was declared a write off,

regards malcolm
curent ride
K reg BX 17TD TZD est
also own
K reg D special

no longer have
H reg CX saffari 2.5 TRI (now gone to Malaysia)
R reg xantia 1.9TD est (gone to meet its maker)

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Thread Bear
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Re: SORN B______S

Post by Thread Bear »

I have discovered that if you have a SORN car and change your address, the SORN status is removed by DVLA, even though it is not a change of ownership. Again, no reminder, just a bill - or revenue windfall collection. Since I own a lot of cars that could have potentuially been a big bill. Fortunately most of my cars are kept by dead drop mail boxes in other names. Hard luck guys, I saw you coming some years ago. Of course I in no way encourage you to break the law, but merely point out the savings in numerious fine situations by not being a registered keeper.
Miguel - 16 TRS Auto S, light blue, 43k miles - £450
Pluto - 14 E S, White, 105k Miles - in work
Egbert - 19 16v Gti, White, A/C & Leather, - Keeper
Walt - 17 TZD Turbo S, graphite, 70k miles, good op extras - Keeper
Scraper- 17 TZD Turbo E, blue, 208k miles - parts
Homer - 19 TXD E, Red, 189k miles - £250
Gary - 17 TZD Turbo E, 118k miles - in work

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citronut
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Re: SORN B______S

Post by citronut »

so Mr Bear
your friends dont mind paying your fines then ????? :o #-o :roll: :lol: :wink:
curent ride
K reg BX 17TD TZD est
also own
K reg D special

no longer have
H reg CX saffari 2.5 TRI (now gone to Malaysia)
R reg xantia 1.9TD est (gone to meet its maker)

Defender110
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Re: SORN B______S

Post by Defender110 »

I have had several run ins with the DVLA and recently had a major dispute with them which I eventually won but they did not give in easily and tried everything to get me to pay.
I bought a Land Rover Defender 110 for restoration and was given the complete V5 on purchase which I duly filled out the new owner section and then took the completed V5 to the Post Office to declare it SORN and under new ownership. (I had previously taxed newly purchased cars at the PO with the V5 not in my name which they are happy to do but take the V5 off you to send off to Swansea with new keeper details) They duly stamped the V5 with their PO stamp and declared it SORN and were happy for me to take a copy of the stamped V5 for my records. Move on 6 months and I receive a demand off DVLA for £100 for failing to declare SORN or re-tax the vehicle when due. I appealed against this demand in writing via their appeals system on their website stating that I had indeed declared SORN and gave them the date and address of the PO where I had personally done it. I receive confirmation that they had received my appeal and they were considering my case. Job done you would think but no chance ; 3 weeks later I receive a reply from them telling me I have lost my appeal as there is no record of my Land Rover being declared SORN. I was incensed as I clearly remembered going to the PO and declaring it SORN and so checked all my paperwork and then found the photocopy of the PO Date stamped V5 clearly showing the time date and Post Office. I went back on to their website and appealed again quoting my previous appeals reference. No. and attaching a copy of the PO stamped V5 as my proof I had indeed declared SORN, further acknowledgement followed 3 weeks later by another reply telling me that the have upheld the original decision and the fine was still due as they 'have no record of the Land Rover being declared SORN' I immediately reply again now quoting the 2 previous appeal reference no.s, (each time you register or reply you get given a fresh reference no. and your case is given to a different person each time) and telling them that I had provided them proof with a copy of the PO stamped V5 so how could they not have a record of the SORN declaration. Further acknowledgment followed 3 weeks later a reply telling me my appeal had again failed as not only was there no record of the Land Rover being declared sorn at that Post Office I couldn't have declared it SORN at a Post Office because the facility to declare SORN at a Post Office doesn't exist' :shock: :shock: :shock: I was gobsmacked at reading this utter trash and this time appealed again requesting that my appeal now be passed onto "Someone who actually knows what they are talking about" as the facility to declare SORN does contrary to her reply does exist and further more I had now put in a request to another Department of the DVLA requesting under the Freedom of Information Act that they supply me all details of the records they have for vehicles declared SORN at that Post Office that day and I also put the same request into the Post Office.
I received a reply from my Request for Information from the other dept. telling me that they did indeed have a record for my Land Rover being declared SORN that day at that Post Office but that this SORN had been registered to the Previous owner and not me as the new keeper.
3 weeks later the my appeal was once again refused as the SORN the Post Office had declared was not in my name and they were not responsible for the Post Office errors and as the new keeper I had a responsibility to declare the vehicle SORN.
FFS , I once again appeal quoting all the other appeal no.s and informed them that if they looked at the copy of the V5 that I not the previous keeper had used to declare SORN they would see the new keeper section had been filled in and signed by me "THE NEW KEEPER", I also pointed out that the Post Office were their agent not mine and that I had fulfilled my legal responsibility to declare my vehicle SORN, I stated that I was now seeking legal action and would be taking the matter to court.
I then receive a letter telling me that my case had been passed onto a Senior Adviser who was going to review my case!
3 weeks later I finally receive acknowledgment that "My case had been reviewed and no further action was being taken against me" ?????????????????????? No apology, no acceptance that they had been wrong just this statement!
This whole episode took up over six months of my life and I didn't even get acknowledgment that I had been right all along and had declared the vehicle SORN as originally stated.
Ars--les!
Kevan
1997 Mercedes C230 W202
2003 Land Rover Discovery Series 2 Facelift TD5 - Daily driver / hobby days and camping.
1993 Land Rover Discovery 200tdi Series 1 3 door - in need of TLC
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citsncycles
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Re: SORN B______S

Post by citsncycles »

Another of their tricks is ignorig letters they say they accept. A couple of years back I sold a motorbike, and the V5 was duly filled in and sent off. 6 weeks later the new owner contacted me to say that they hadn't received a V5 yet. When I checked on line, it was still in my name. I also discovered that they supposedly accept a letter notifying them of sale or transfer as well as the filled out V5, even going as far as listing what to put in the letter. I sent 2, the 2nd recorded delivery, both of which they ignored, and in the end had to pay for a duplicate V5 to fill out to tell them I no longer owned the vehicle, this being cheaper than the fine they slap on you if the new keeper contacts them first.

I've also been informed they may be taking action against me for the Visa not being SORNed for a month. I had this with the 4x4 too, although it came to nothing. It seems that if you buy a car on SORN towards the end of the month, so you don't get the V5 until the following month, they automatically flag you for not declaring SORN for the month you bought the car when you do declare it!
Mike Sims
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Re: SORN B______S

Post by citronut »

Defender110 wrote:I have had several run ins with the DVLA and recently had a major dispute with them which I eventually won but they did not give in easily and tried everything to get me to pay.
I bought a Land Rover Defender 110 for restoration and was given the complete V5 on purchase which I duly filled out the new owner section and then took the completed V5 to the Post Office to declare it SORN and under new ownership. (I had previously taxed newly purchased cars at the PO with the V5 not in my name which they are happy to do but take the V5 off you to send off to Swansea with new keeper details) They duly stamped the V5 with their PO stamp and declared it SORN and were happy for me to take a copy of the stamped V5 for my records. Move on 6 months and I receive a demand off DVLA for £100 for failing to declare SORN or re-tax the vehicle when due. I appealed against this demand in writing via their appeals system on their website stating that I had indeed declared SORN and gave them the date and address of the PO where I had personally done it. I receive confirmation that they had received my appeal and they were considering my case. Job done you would think but no chance ; 3 weeks later I receive a reply from them telling me I have lost my appeal as there is no record of my Land Rover being declared SORN. I was incensed as I clearly remembered going to the PO and declaring it SORN and so checked all my paperwork and then found the photocopy of the PO Date stamped V5 clearly showing the time date and Post Office. I went back on to their website and appealed again quoting my previous appeals reference. No. and attaching a copy of the PO stamped V5 as my proof I had indeed declared SORN, further acknowledgement followed 3 weeks later by another reply telling me that the have upheld the original decision and the fine was still due as they 'have no record of the Land Rover being declared SORN' I immediately reply again now quoting the 2 previous appeal reference no.s, (each time you register or reply you get given a fresh reference no. and your case is given to a different person each time) and telling them that I had provided them proof with a copy of the PO stamped V5 so how could they not have a record of the SORN declaration. Further acknowledgment followed 3 weeks later a reply telling me my appeal had again failed as not only was there no record of the Land Rover being declared sorn at that Post Office I couldn't have declared it SORN at a Post Office because the facility to declare SORN at a Post Office doesn't exist' :shock: :shock: :shock: I was gobsmacked at reading this utter trash and this time appealed again requesting that my appeal now be passed onto "Someone who actually knows what they are talking about" as the facility to declare SORN does contrary to her reply does exist and further more I had now put in a request to another Department of the DVLA requesting under the Freedom of Information Act that they supply me all details of the records they have for vehicles declared SORN at that Post Office that day and I also put the same request into the Post Office.
I received a reply from my Request for Information from the other dept. telling me that they did indeed have a record for my Land Rover being declared SORN that day at that Post Office but that this SORN had been registered to the Previous owner and not me as the new keeper.
3 weeks later the my appeal was once again refused as the SORN the Post Office had declared was not in my name and they were not responsible for the Post Office errors and as the new keeper I had a responsibility to declare the vehicle SORN.
FFS , I once again appeal quoting all the other appeal no.s and informed them that if they looked at the copy of the V5 that I not the previous keeper had used to declare SORN they would see the new keeper section had been filled in and signed by me "THE NEW KEEPER", I also pointed out that the Post Office were their agent not mine and that I had fulfilled my legal responsibility to declare my vehicle SORN, I stated that I was now seeking legal action and would be taking the matter to court.
I then receive a letter telling me that my case had been passed onto a Senior Adviser who was going to review my case!
3 weeks later I finally receive acknowledgment that "My case had been reviewed and no further action was being taken against me" ?????????????????????? No apology, no acceptance that they had been wrong just this statement!
This whole episode took up over six months of my life and I didn't even get acknowledgment that I had been right all along and had declared the vehicle SORN as originally stated.
Ars--les!
i havent read all of this post, but
are you aware a new keeper must fill in a V890 in and send it off, to make a SORN declaration at the time of change of ownership,

it is an offense for the previous keeper to give the new keeper the full V5C, the new keeper is only meant to take the green slip ( new keepers supplement ), which you can purchase road tax with before you receive the V5C in your name,

SORN is not transferable to a new keeper

regards malcolm
curent ride
K reg BX 17TD TZD est
also own
K reg D special

no longer have
H reg CX saffari 2.5 TRI (now gone to Malaysia)
R reg xantia 1.9TD est (gone to meet its maker)

Tinkley
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Re: SORN B______S

Post by Tinkley »

The whole SORN thing was brought in around 1999 by the Labour government when someone decided to count the vehicles not taxed. What an administrative waste of money. But it pays for a few more Civil Service jobs!, or rather the taxpayer does.

As far as I can work out, there is no reasonable rationale for it (SORN) at all, except perhaps for the export of vehicles. This though, is covered by other legislation as far as I know. Finally after 15 years of the farce aka SORN, it will be going. Takes a long time sometimes to amend bad legislation.

Good tale Defender, glad you won. I got caught with one vehicle as reminder never came and had to pay, never again.

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Thread Bear
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Re: SORN B______S

Post by Thread Bear »

Official double standards. You get sent an official letter, it is legal for them to assume it is delivered. Even if they use the wrong address!!! You post a letter to that same department, they have cart blanche to lose or ignore it, by saying they never recieved it. I have had them try this so many times, automatically, it is great to then have invested in being able to say 'Best talk to Adolf Jones, who signed for it, then!'
Of course all these systems are designed to be impersonal, so you have no target to aim at. Once you can single out a person, the best course is to take it personally and esculate the case. Most officials will leap a lot of hoops to not be drawn out, so you get your way. All they want is their safe job, coffee and no decernable responseability.
I happen to think they they have a serious problem with system abuse for private profit at DVLA. Something they are very keen to hush up. But so many bezierre tales come out of miss applied rules, lost documents and missappropraiated numbers and I know a private investigator who can access anything he wants on thier system for a fee. There was definitly a ring stealing unreturned accident crash tax discs not refunded. The thing wants replacing with a leaner, more sensible and effcient system. It would save the motorist a fortune and serve the police and insurers far better.
Miguel - 16 TRS Auto S, light blue, 43k miles - £450
Pluto - 14 E S, White, 105k Miles - in work
Egbert - 19 16v Gti, White, A/C & Leather, - Keeper
Walt - 17 TZD Turbo S, graphite, 70k miles, good op extras - Keeper
Scraper- 17 TZD Turbo E, blue, 208k miles - parts
Homer - 19 TXD E, Red, 189k miles - £250
Gary - 17 TZD Turbo E, 118k miles - in work

'87 Trooper, Borgwards, Saabs, MG ZB, Bellamy Trials, Fiat Jolly & Bianchina, Goggo Dart, Messerschmitt, Heinkel, Bubblecars

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Re: SORN B______S

Post by Defender110 »

citronut wrote: i havent read all of this post, but
are you aware a new keeper must fill in a V890 in and send it off, to make a SORN declaration at the time of change of ownership, True now but this was part of a shake up introduced as a new rule from December 2013 prior to my case, previous to this a SORN could be declared at the Post Office with a V5
"If the vehicle is not already registered in your name, please ensure
the appropriate part of the V5C is filled in and sent.
If the V5C is lost a form V62 (fee applicable) must be filled in."


it is an offense for the previous keeper to give the new keeper the full V5C, the new keeper is only meant to take the green slip ( new keepers supplement ), which you can purchase road tax with before you receive the V5C in your name,
The 'registered keeper' should send off the V5 if he is selling the car but not if he is transferring it to a trader, The 'registered keeper' then only retains the small yellow V5C3 section of the V5C, the main part of the V5C should then be left with the trader to pass on to the next 'new keeper' when sold by the trader, as in my case

SORN is not transferable to a new keeper I was not transferring a SORN I was declaring it SORN as the 'new keeper'

regards malcolm
Kevan
1997 Mercedes C230 W202
2003 Land Rover Discovery Series 2 Facelift TD5 - Daily driver / hobby days and camping.
1993 Land Rover Discovery 200tdi Series 1 3 door - in need of TLC
2020 Fiat Panda 4x4 Cross Twin Air.

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Jaba
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Re: SORN B______S

Post by Jaba »

A happier coda to this thread..........

On reading this I decided I had better have a look at the SORN status of my scrapper as I don't remember sorning it recently.
I found that the sorn ran out on 31/03/2014 but when I looked up the vehicle status it was shown as SORN active.
So I got on the phone and learned that continual sorn is now in place and any vehicle whose sorn was due to expire after 16/12/2013 is now on continuous sorn and no renewals will be sent out.
So, congratulations are due to our coalition government for at least one piece of sensible legislation.
The Joy of BX with just one Citroën BX to my name now. Will I sing Bye Bye to my GTI or will it be Till death us do part.

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MULLEY
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Re: SORN B______S

Post by MULLEY »

About bloody time that once a car is sorned it remains sorned until it gets taxed, why was this so fucking difficult for these twats to understand, it just added time & cost to the whole system & annoyance to those who forgot to renew the sorn......aaaargh!!!
2002 C5 2.0 HDI Estate - Jasmine - Now SORN
2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - SOLD
2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
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1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN

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Thread Bear
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Re: SORN B______S

Post by Thread Bear »

Jaba wrote:A happier coda to this thread..........

On reading this I decided I had better have a look at the SORN status of my scrapper as I don't remember sorning it recently.
I found that the sorn ran out on 31/03/2014 but when I looked up the vehicle status it was shown as SORN active.
So I got on the phone and learned that continual sorn is now in place and any vehicle whose sorn was due to expire after 16/12/2013 is now on continuous sorn and no renewals will be sent out.
So, congratulations are due to our coalition government for at least one piece of sensible legislation.
Unless you change address.
Miguel - 16 TRS Auto S, light blue, 43k miles - £450
Pluto - 14 E S, White, 105k Miles - in work
Egbert - 19 16v Gti, White, A/C & Leather, - Keeper
Walt - 17 TZD Turbo S, graphite, 70k miles, good op extras - Keeper
Scraper- 17 TZD Turbo E, blue, 208k miles - parts
Homer - 19 TXD E, Red, 189k miles - £250
Gary - 17 TZD Turbo E, 118k miles - in work

'87 Trooper, Borgwards, Saabs, MG ZB, Bellamy Trials, Fiat Jolly & Bianchina, Goggo Dart, Messerschmitt, Heinkel, Bubblecars