How safe?

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Tinkley
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How safe?

Post by Tinkley » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:24 pm

Although I've droppped this in the thread below, I thought it might be as well to pop a shot here.

Rear subframe mount from above, o/s - nice little rusty spot eh?
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Kitch
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Re: How safe?

Post by Kitch » Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:17 pm

Ooof! That's the one that usually kills a shell :(
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Re: How safe?

Post by citronut » Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:53 pm

thats similar to one side on Andy's N/A estate and the other side aint far behind
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Re: How safe?

Post by sdelasal » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:12 pm

Is that a tent peg!?

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greendale65
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Re: How safe?

Post by greendale65 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:17 pm

Hi, Is there a inspection plate under rear seat.

Tinkley
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Re: How safe?

Post by Tinkley » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:48 pm

Well, there is access to this bit by first removing the rear seat belt mount bolt. Then unscrew the trim along the side and top (3 screws) and you can just carefully jiggle the trim out without removing the seats. Thanks to Kitch for telling me how and showing the access slot on the 'metallic blue'un' down at his place last year. At least my beast had the grace not to collapse when on your rolling road... :wink:

Well it did'nt fail at er er 70+ on the M3 a week ago or so....thank goodness. Though I am reluctant to load her up with 250 full size bricks... :lol: as I have done with the other one in the past!.So I reckon it would be OK for a short trip. Although the nuts are perfectly free, I don't seem to be able to drop the frame at all. Mind you I have not freed the other side yet - like you citronut, nowhere near as bad but needs doing (although would pass MOT on that side). It seems from investigation that the previous owner had done some repair in this area, there are scorch marks ie surface rust, where the wiring loom sits, it was obviously removed from harms way when he 'repaired' it.... - I am highly suspicious of the steel grade used. I don't think Citroen used Duck tape... :lol:

The photo is after a fair bit of poking/grinding on the other side and a reasonable ammount plus vacuuming from inside this pocket so most really loose stuff has gone, but it is still not exactly 'sound' IMHO!.

Out of interest, what is the recommended EN or whatever grade steel sheet suitable or optimum for this type of repair? I could not find the spec for the original high tensile grade Citroen used for the shell and of course welding heat will change it's temper etc. That is part of the reason I do not reject MIG brazing - lower temp and better flow, no air gaps and plenty strong enough.

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Re: How safe?

Post by Kitch » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:54 am

Standard plate steel would be fine, it's the access you have to worry about. Getting the welder in there is not easy!
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Re: How safe?

Post by Tinkley » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:03 am

Thanks Kitch. As I cannot seem to drop the alloy bit with the studs on, it has occurred to me that the previous guy, may have actually welded the subframe to the chassis! If that is possible? At least even after moderate hammering, I still cannot get any movement downwards. I have the subframe supported and the nuts loosened off a couple of mm so it ought to move a tiny bit, should it not? I'll let the other side free a couple of mm as well.

TBH, if I could simply drop the studs/alloy subframe part low enough to get the steel packing piece out, I can kluge a steel fabrication that would be enough to get an MOT. Then get it sorted properly a bit later, along with the other side and any other nasties. I have some SWG 14 sheet which if drilled and shaped could make a sufficiently solid clamped up lump. After paint and other stuff, it would not be seen as anything other than steel to any inspector - and it would be steel.

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Re: How safe?

Post by Kitch » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:41 am

You can't easily weld alloy to steel, no. If you've not undone the opposite side, that's probably the issue as the beams needs to drop squarely, otherwise the studs just foul the hole as it tries to work through an angle as it drops. Either that, or you've got uber strong subframe mounts!

Getting that plate out isn't easy though, especially upside down. And then you have to get the alignment bob-on, otherwise you end up totalling rear tyres.

On the GT, I'm creating sandwich plates either side. The actual plate itself is ok, it's the metal around it that's no good.
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Re: How safe?

Post by JayW » Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:10 am

You have also undone the rearmost subframe bolts?
I have zero patience for your tedium.

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Re: How safe?

Post by Kitch » Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:42 am

JayW wrote:You have also undone the rearmost subframe bolts?
I was assuming he had :lol:
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Re: How safe?

Post by Tinkley » Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:49 pm

Thanks for that Kitch. The sandwich plate concept is exactly what I had in mind as it will accomodate potentially a lot of steel which will be very solid. I'm pretty sure I can keep it aligned - :wink: as there is enough metal to self align without losing it completely. So it then becomes a relatively minor plate level ie horizontal Datum issue - if everything is actually on the 'Plane' it is seated correctly.

I'll give it a go, letting the n/s down a bit.
JayW wrote:You have also undone the rearmost subframe bolts?
I assume you mean the ones accessed through the boot floor (plastic plug filled) which seem to be in the bumpstop area? yes those are loosened, enough to let it move.

Might just be that the rust is so tight around the stud bases it needs to be pretty flat to shift. Once it has moved even a wee bit, it will be easier. I do not wish to compromise the studs and alloy piece!.

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Re: How safe?

Post by Tinkley » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:58 am

Thanks once again, freeing the n/s got it to move. Now the fun bit begins!.