No indicators etc

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kiwi
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No indicators etc

Post by kiwi » Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:32 am

Houston I have a problem! Bizarre happening the indicators made a funny noise and failed. Battery warning light came on so I assumed alternator and shut everything off not needed to limp home. Ask the mech to check the battery/alternator all fine! Nows the weird part started the car up everything fine.

Except today wife had the car all fine on her way home from work same problem however she did not switch off the blower and left it on displaying the battery light. Now heres the problem everything that runs on Fuse 2 is not working(indicators, blower,dash warning lamps) when I restarted. Only thing I can think of is the weekend I did an oil change and cleaned the engine. Thoughts? Fuses checked, relays checked connections fiddled with.
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91

Tinkley
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Re: No indicators etc

Post by Tinkley » Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:09 am

Sounds like an earthing problem, though I may be wrong. Probably best to clean up the main ground onto the rear of gearbox, then see if you can locate any smaller grounds on Fuse 2 circuit. Hopefully someone else may know where these lie.
Also check water is not getting to fusebox and shorting the relays ie hole under screen wash container on n/s. Although when I got this the wipers just came on without touching the control!.

kiwi
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Re: No indicators etc

Post by kiwi » Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:40 am

I was thinking that been out in the dark of the garage the last hour or so looking for the obvious. Even gone as far as swapping fuses out the other bxs and relays. Theres no rust to worry about leaks on this car not living in the UK or near the coast rust seems to stay away. All my mind can think of is that spraying of engine cleaner the other week the cars not been used that much since. Whats worrying is my wife reacted differently to me the last trip and did not shut off the fan blower etc. She just kept driving with the battery dash light on and after switching off the engine when she got home everything on fuse 2 not working.
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91

kiwi
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Re: No indicators etc

Post by kiwi » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:30 am

Another possible but need input for this would be Ignition switch?
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91

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Vanny
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Re: No indicators etc

Post by Vanny » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:51 am

Try disconnecting the hazard switch (if you're careful it can be levered out without having to take the dash apart).

The hazard switch integrates with a lot of these functions and can cause strange faults when they fail.

Might be a red herring, but worth the 5 minutes to check.

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mat_fenwick
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Re: No indicators etc

Post by mat_fenwick » Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:14 am

kiwi wrote:however she did not switch off the blower and left it on displaying the battery light.
Do I understand this right - you have to turn off the blower to stop the battery light from showing? Is this both with ignition on and off?
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kiwi
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Re: No indicators etc

Post by kiwi » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:14 am

mat_fenwick wrote:
kiwi wrote:however she did not switch off the blower and left it on displaying the battery light.
Do I understand this right - you have to turn off the blower to stop the battery light from showing? Is this both with ignition on and off?
Thats pretty much what I did the other day when it happened also I noted the parking brake light caused the battery to illuminate hence I thought it was the alternator. The headlights had no effect which was odd now I think about that.

Once the ignition off no lights showing and now no lights showing full stop on the instrument cluster. One the reason I thought about the ignition switch is because when you switch the key on the centre clock works and so does the radio, then then of course the diesel pre heater. nothing associated with Fuse 2 works now. I know when the ignition switch plays up on the TRS weird things happen hence my idea of ignition switch. In the morning going to switch over the ignition from the TZS. Worth a shot as we got snow to low level forecast and the Diesel BX the only beast with decent tyres to handle it.

Bad blardy timing if ever.
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91

Tinkley
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Re: No indicators etc

Post by Tinkley » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:36 pm

Yup, on my Chrysler Sumbeam (later Talbot) I had the ignition switch go and very strange things happened. Like turn on the indicators and the headlights went on or wipers. Worth a check, especially if you can find a substitute one. It is effectively faulty earthing a circuit.

Best test is find a replacement and try. Fortunately a BX is pretty good for extracting the switch and wiring etc. Definitely worth a punt.

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David
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Re: No indicators etc

Post by David » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:46 pm

I would say its ether the ignition switch or a wire come apart between the ignition switch & fuse box.

Remove the front part of the center console & find the 2 plugs with the 2 lots of 4 fat wires in them. One is white & one is brown. The wires in one are red & the others are white (assuming the ignition barrel hasn't been changed). 4 are constant live & the others are for the different positions on the ignition (2 accessories, ignition & starter)

If you jumper the wires together (it doesn't matter which constant live wire you use) & see if your red lights come on in the dash (make sure the car isn't in gear if you hit the starter wire!)

I think the order in the plug is: accessories 2 (windows, wipers etc), accessories 1 (heater, dash lights, indicators etc), starter, ignition.


Hope that helps.
1992 Citroën BX 1.9 Diesel Meteor 4x4 - The Project.

1992 Citroën BX 1.9 TXD (with GTI engine; Mulleys old car) - Parts car.

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kiwi
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Re: No indicators etc

Post by kiwi » Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:35 am

I think David is on to something here

Given only need indicators for two places on my journey this morning and sweet traffic so I could get away with lack indication which probably would go unnoticed anyway for those who live here would understand :p

Not dash warning lights! No intermittent wiper speed, indicators when attempted made funny screeching noise and battery light illuminates faintly, when you put the Blower motor on the battery light gets brighter and silence from the indicators. Handbrake on also lights up the battery light.

I am getting used to replacing ignitions so my plan is to simply swap the steering column just to see if I can isolate this at the ignition barrel.
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91

kiwi
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Re: No indicators etc

Post by kiwi » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:09 am

BINGO!

Took a punt at plugging in an old ignition minus its barrel. Perfect everything back to normal :) so I took a closer look at one the connector blocks and noted a bit of green corrosion on one the connectors, given how damp it is here at the moment not really a surprise but clearly enough to cause a short. Anyways picked at it with micro screwdriver and plugged back in and all ok.

To think I was going to let an auto sparky look at that and probably spend a small fortune on a simple thing. Thanks again guys passing this stuff over here makes it easier.
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91

Tinkley
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Re: No indicators etc

Post by Tinkley » Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:09 am

Result! well tracked down.

andycadabra
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Re: No indicators etc

Post by andycadabra » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:55 pm

My ignition barrel 'collapsed' internally the other day meaning I couldn't get my key in. The breakdown guy dug it out and, after an hour and a half, had managed to hotwire the car so I could get home. I've now replaced his hot wiring with a relatively sophisticated three way lightswitch temporarily until I can get a new barrel. The problem is I have no indicators (I was just getting a buzzing noise coming from the fuse box when I indicated) and heater, so can't drive anywhere.
Basically, there are four red wires and four white ones. He connected three of the red ones together, and these need to be connected to a white one to activate the ignition circuit, glow plugs, and then a second white one needs to be connected temporarily to these 4 to activate the starter motor. This leaves two white ones and one red one unconnected. I've tested with a multimeter, and there is 12 V measured between both of the white ones (negative) and the other 4 (positive). The car has a factory fitted immobiliser which seems to be working normally.

Does anyone have any idea what I could try to to get the indicators and heater working, by changing/completing the connection of the wires. I've referred to the circuit diagram but can't figure it out. I've also visually checked all of the fuses
Also, from pictures I've seen online, the ignition barrel is permanently connected to the red and white wires which end in brown and white connectors - the distance to the connectors seems to be about 18 inches long, in the pictures, but on my car, the wires (which seem to be at least 2 feet long) disappear behind the centre console behind the radio, where they can't be reached. Is this normal?. It might mean I'll have to cut the wires and reconnect with a terminal block, but I'll need to know the significance of each wire. It would be a lot simpler if they were all different colours!
1992 BX 17TZD 130k
1987 BX 16TRS SORN

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Re: No indicators etc

Post by Tinkley » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:39 pm

Remember the barrel has a couple of Key positions where the wiring connections are slightly different. Such as start ie max rotation, with return spring pushing it back to the normal run position. Normally all the warning lights on the dash light as you scroll through on the key, but are off once started. It is this position of the wiring you are trying to emulate.

Also possible a relay has gone ie indicator - in the fusebox. Check the fuse for that circuit too.

A replacement barrel (still available) will have a different key to the doors/fuel cap unless you fit a set.. :wink:

Mothman

Re: No indicators etc

Post by Mothman » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:28 pm

There is a barrel on ebay at the moment.

Andy