Troubles come in threes - any advice please?

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deltic
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Troubles come in threes - any advice please?

Post by deltic » Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:54 pm

Three problems are afflicting my BX at the moment and if anyone has any advice I'd be grateful:

1. Seems to be running a bit hot - whilst the car is moving the temperature gauge remains pretty much the same at 90C but when stationary soon goes up to 100C or slightly hotter. Fan is working OK, problem with thermostat?

2. Fast ticking of accumulator. Replaced accumulator about two years ago, but only made a little difference. I've another new accumulator, so try that and see what happens?

3. This is a new one and started on a very hot day. Changing up from 3rd to 4th (auto box) the engine suddenly revs up, almost if it is slipping. All other operations of the gearbox are smooth. Double check gearbox level and change fluid? Must admit I haven't driven the car since so need to test it again to see if the problem is still there.

Thanks
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Re: Troubles come in threes - any advice please?

Post by ken newbold » Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:23 pm

Suppose you could fit a lower rated temp sensor, I thought they were 83' Is the rad hot all over? could be blocking :-/

Acculator, let the car sit at normal height, switch engine off, then go round back and climb on back to depress the back end. It should come back up as if by magic, if it don't your acc sphere is prob flat and needs changing, if it does come up, either your pressure regulator is faulty or you have some leakage in the high pressure system somewhere. Not too bad to trace by removing the return pipes at the reservior one at a time and see which one is paasing lots of fluid.

Not much good on auto boxes, but it sounds like it's either slipping in 4th or not engaging 4th correctly.
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Re: Troubles come in threes - any advice please?

Post by Way2go » Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:32 am

Answers given to each point in Red. :)
deltic wrote:Three problems are afflicting my BX at the moment and if anyone has any advice I'd be grateful:

1. Seems to be running a bit hot - whilst the car is moving the temperature gauge remains pretty much the same at 90C but when stationary soon goes up to 100C or slightly hotter. Fan is working OK, problem with thermostat?

Sounds like a build up of crud in the waterways of the head. Drain system and refill with Barr's Professional Flush. I've run with this stuff in for a couple of days before dumping, flushing well and returning to standard fill. Stable on temperature afterwards. 8)


2. Fast ticking of accumulator. Replaced accumulator about two years ago, but only made a little difference. I've another new accumulator, so try that and see what happens?

Try a change and if not improved try ball-valve re-seating trick.

3. This is a new one and started on a very hot day. Changing up from 3rd to 4th (auto box) the engine suddenly revs up, almost if it is slipping. All other operations of the gearbox are smooth. Double check gearbox level and change fluid? Must admit I haven't driven the car since so need to test it again to see if the problem is still there.

This sounds like the kick-down cable has broken or stretched. The kick-down cable does more than just kick-down so needs precise adjustment.

Thanks
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Re: Troubles come in threes - any advice please?

Post by Tim Leech » Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:32 am

My TZI auto runs the same temperature but never overheats, the fan cuts in ok, I plan to flus the cooling system and fit a diesel temp switch.

Have you had the autobox fluid changed?
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Re: Troubles come in threes - any advice please?

Post by Tinkley » Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:58 am

I've had two fan thermostats' go, and that is with a really clean water system. Deionised water and anti freeze 50/50 and with clean radiator etc. Check the hoses too as I had the thermostat housing shear recently, the black plastic type with bleed screw Peugeot part No 1336.A1. If you have this type, I'd advise replacing as a precaution, it is still available. Try shorting the fan thermostat with a spade ended link, it will keep the fan on permanently, and will show what temperature the motor is running at with it (thermostat fan switch) kicked in. The hottest an engine gets is sitting in a traffic jam on a hot day, if the car is moving the radiator area seems pretty good on these cars. Then they were designed for 50+C ambient temperatures of southern Europe and Oz etc.

I have assumed the water system has NEVER been filled with tap water, as this causes corrosion of any aluminium parts, and crucially it attacks any core plugs (plated steel). This residue then blocks the radiator slightly and reduces the efficiency of the cooling system. I've been lucky with 2 cars and unlucky with one where the dealer had filled the car with tap water grrrrrr. Thanks Broads of Chalfont, not far from Citroen HQ..... :wink:

Not sure about Accumulator, I never seem to hear this car's one at all, whereas the previous two were very evident but pretty much always correct for tick. Worth doing the Citrobics and bleeding first to get any air out of the system.

No knowledge of auto box, but the manual boxes like an oil change every 60k even if it was dropped from the service schedule. You can feel the difference.

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Re: Troubles come in threes - any advice please?

Post by deltic » Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:33 pm

Thank you all for the responses!
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Re: Troubles come in threes - any advice please?

Post by deltic » Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:37 pm

ken newbold wrote:Suppose you could fit a lower rated temp sensor, I thought they were 83' Is the rad hot all over? could be blocking :-/
Possible, perhaps the radiator boiling over on the climb into Andorra on the Challenge has upset something, although I rather suspect this issue predates that.
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Re: Troubles come in threes - any advice please?

Post by deltic » Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:39 pm

Way2go wrote:
This sounds like the kick-down cable has broken or stretched. The kick-down cable does more than just kick-down so needs precise adjustment.

Thanks
[/quote]

Yes that's an idea as the revving up was worse with harder acceleration.
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Re: Troubles come in threes - any advice please?

Post by deltic » Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:41 pm

Tim Leech wrote:My TZI auto runs the same temperature but never overheats, the fan cuts in ok, I plan to flus the cooling system and fit a diesel temp switch.

Have you had the autobox fluid changed?
The fluid would appear to be fairly clean and at the right level, however my notes indicate that it is actually due a change so that won't do any harm.
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Re: Troubles come in threes - any advice please?

Post by deltic » Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:44 pm

Tinkley wrote:I've had two fan thermostats' go, and that is with a really clean water system. Deionised water and anti freeze 50/50 and with clean radiator etc. Check the hoses too as I had the thermostat housing shear recently, the black plastic type with bleed screw Peugeot part No 1336.A1. If you have this type, I'd advise replacing as a precaution, it is still available. Try shorting the fan thermostat with a spade ended link, it will keep the fan on permanently, and will show what temperature the motor is running at with it (thermostat fan switch) kicked in. The hottest an engine gets is sitting in a traffic jam on a hot day, if the car is moving the radiator area seems pretty good on these cars. Then they were designed for 50+C ambient temperatures of southern Europe and Oz etc.

I have assumed the water system has NEVER been filled with tap water, as this causes corrosion of any aluminium parts, and crucially it attacks any core plugs (plated steel). This residue then blocks the radiator slightly and reduces the efficiency of the cooling system. I've been lucky with 2 cars and unlucky with one where the dealer had filled the car with tap water grrrrrr. Thanks Broads of Chalfont, not far from Citroen HQ..... :wink:

Not sure about Accumulator, I never seem to hear this car's one at all, whereas the previous two were very evident but pretty much always correct for tick. Worth doing the Citrobics and bleeding first to get any air out of the system.

No knowledge of auto box, but the manual boxes like an oil change every 60k even if it was dropped from the service schedule. You can feel the difference.
To my knowledge the cooling system has never been filled with tap water in my ownership, but we'll never know for sure...
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Re: Troubles come in threes - any advice please?

Post by Way2go » Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:59 am

This de-ionised water idea seems a bit OTT to me. In my many years of motoring , my cars always have used tap water & coolant mix without a problem. After all the coolant is not just anti-freeze but corrosion inhibitors too. Using a flushing compound after every few routine changes ensures that the waterways stay free flowing.
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Re: Troubles come in threes - any advice please?

Post by Tinkley » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:35 am

If you had seen my 4 year old (at the time) 14RE after a core plug rusted and came out of the 150C engine, I'm sure you would never use tap water again. Yes, it had enough anti freeze but the radiator required replacing it was so full of crud it was not possible to flush it. All w/cooled m/bikes are 50/50 anti freeze and deionised water. Just check the reactivity of Aluminium on the galvanic table.... :wink:
That 14 did another 11 years with NO cooling problems bar a water pump change, and it was whistle clean after changing the coolant 5 years after the rebuild. I'd use any water in an emergency, but for long term keeping, I prefer the less (chemically) active deionised water.

On Deltic's problem, could easily be the bi metallic fan switch beginning to fail ie not cutting in, at the right temperature, just a higher one. Be aware that the temperature switch point for different engines is slightly different so important to get the correct fan switch.

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Re: Troubles come in threes - any advice please?

Post by Defender110 » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:31 am

In reference to running a bit hot when stationary then yes you have a coolant circulation problem which could be the stat, blocked / cruddy coolant system or failing water pump impellor. Generally the fan should only come on if stationary for long periods, long hill climbs or towing. Under normal conditions the coolant should cool with just the air flow and coolant flow through the radiator without the need for the fan. Firstly check the air vanes are clear on the rad to allow good air flow, then I would give the complete cooling system a flush out removing the radiator and back flushing it from the bottom with a hose pipe and you will also be able to check that when the rad is empty it is not excessively heavy to make sure it is not blocked internally with crud, then make sure the water is clear and free flowing with a hose attached to . I would then flush the block through with the hose to make sure this is free flowing. If everything is clear and free flowing and it is still getting too hot and assuming there are no signs of pressurising from head gasket failure then it may well be the water pump impellor coming loose although this is rare nowadays.



Way2go wrote:This de-ionised water idea seems a bit OTT to me. In my many years of motoring , my cars always have used tap water & coolant mix without a problem. After all the coolant is not just anti-freeze but corrosion inhibitors too. Using a flushing compound after every few routine changes ensures that the waterways stay free flowing.
I tend to agree with this, I have maintained several large haulage fleets over the years with tap water without any issues although I am up north where the water is mush softer and our kettles always remain clean, I've seen kettles down sarf that I would not consider using and can only assume it would have the same effects on engine cooling systems.
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Re: Troubles come in threes - any advice please?

Post by rutter123 » Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:48 am

Normal running at 90 is a bit too hot? My gti runs about 75/80 and never above 90 even in traffic, i would suggest first to fit a more accurate digital temp gauge even if just temporary before shelling out on bits you may not need. This will give you a better idea of how your engine is behaving. A faulty auto box can add extra strain on the engine making it run hotter than norm.
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Re: Troubles come in threes - any advice please?

Post by deltic » Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:21 pm

Thanks again for all the suggestions, comments, etc. My hunch is that it is the kick down cable that is the culprit as it feels very loose. Car booked in garage later this week to sort all these problems along with the rear wheel bearings and rear height corrector. And along with two new tyres for the C4 it's a good job I get paid on Friday...

I have to say that even with all these faults the car seemed to drive better than ever today.
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